Charlie Gard

Annsixty you took the words out my mouth I was then going to say just because we have the ability to keep him in some kind of limbo life doesn't mean we should I think it is very different from the little lad with cancer he was a normal ability child who became ill and another country had a different form of treatment which I felt he should have been allowed to receive and yes it paid off. This little lad is very different he would not be alive at all a decade or so ago, I think he has no ability to do anything not even breathe alone I can totally understand the parents hanging on to the tiniest sign of hope but I think it's wicked the way Trump et al have all come out of the woodwork I believe the latest is the medicine has been offered to him here in this country if that can be done the parents will be able to rest that they ve done everything but I agree I think they are being emotionally revved up and manipulated for headlines
In this case nature should take its course

Why should nature take it's course for one child but not another .

What I find unfair is Pro life campaigners are critcised for allegedly interfering , surely anyone who says the child should die are interfering too?

Annie the case you cite is true but a totally different situation from this.

Because he has no quality of life Anniebach and I m sure this has been the case for any baby born with a huge magnitude of medical problems we just haven't heard of it because the parents of most terminally ill babies who are probably suffering haven't tried to fight the system I m not sure what child of his major problems you think has had help ?
The baby can't see, can't hear, can't breath unaided, he has brain damage, heart liver and kidney abnormalities he can't move because his muscles are too weak he can't even make a noise...... even with the experimental meds he wouldn't be expected to improve just prolong his life a little
How can this be fair to him or the family

Anniebach I was not suggesting that perfect health equals a perfect life. I have worked in Mental Health and with people with learning disabilities all my working life so maybe am entitled to my opinion.

ab no one has said that only perfect health =a happy life. It's not a dichotomous situation but there is clearly a wide spectrum of health and it seems that Charlie is at the far end of it. As for the role of the pro-lifers, well this 'pastor' is using Charlie to further his agenda, those of us who think letting Charlie go are not using him to further our - well what would you call it- 'anti-life' agenda. This pastor is bad news and will only use this case whilst it serves his agenda - he'll then be on to the next cause celebre. As a pp has said, the very idea that you have to come over here to be able to pray effectively....

I was surprised last night, when parents on news, said they knew better than the doctors.

Considering the totally unconditional love I have for my own son, and that I would move heaven and earth for him if I found myself in the same position as Charlie's parents, they should be allowed to try this treatment for him. As he can hardly get any worse, why not try? How could you live with yourself if you didn't go the extra mile?

"Why does only perfect health equal a happy life ?"

Annie it is beyond ridiculous to suggest that this is what Christinefrance - or anyone else - was saying.

When Lord Winston, a respected and world paediatric expert, speaks out to say that there's no hope, then it's time to call it a day and let little Charlie die in peace. His mother is in denial and whilst I sympathise, I think the time has come to say goodbye.

I find this case incredibly difficult - I accept that poor little Charlie has no real chance of any major improvement, but suppose this new treatment gave him some better quality of life, the parents would always feel they'd done the right thing and they should be allowed that hope.

Christine, I didn't even suggest you were not entitled to your opinion, I respect it, but I also respect everyone is entitled to their opinions , be it you who know the difficulties for those with learning difficulties or the Pope who believes in right to life.

I have not supported either way, I have questioned judgement on quality of life

I think that the medical profession needs to learn how to deal with parents of seriously/terminally ill children better, not turn to the law as soon as they are challenged in their decisions and generally stop playing god.
I'm fed up with the use of the term "quality of life" as an excuse to turn off the life support system or withdraw treatment. Judging a person by the way they experience the world is such an outdated idea. I wonder how many of us here would be refused treatment by young fit people because they hate the thought of being old? Obviously it's all down to social prejudices against the disabled, aged and just plain different
I'm of the opinion that if the parents want to try a new treatment abroad, let them.
Doctors aren't gods.

But Sulis that is predicated on the treatment doing no harm and that his little life is not full of pain - we don't know that do we? As I said earlier, on the MN thread are moving posts from mothers who have decided with doctors that enough is enough and have let their child go - they also deeply loved their children unconditionally

I feel so sorry for the staff at GOSH - these are some of the best paediatricians and specialist nurses in the world - they can only do and advise what they think is best for the CHILD. People such as Trump and random members of the public getting involved while knowing nothing about Charlie's medical condition is appalling. I fear the parents are now backed into a corner and have to continue their fight whether it is right or not.

As annsixty said - just because we can does not mean we should.

NellD I think you are bring incredibly unkind about the doctors who spend their lives caring for such terribly ill children- they do not turn to the law as soon as they are challenged. The GOSH face book page has many tributes from parents who have actually experienced the care the hospital provides and they say how tremendously the staff cared for, worked with and supported them during such a heartbreaking time. Doctors and nurses in these situation cry themselves when a child dies.and your comment about young fit people is sheer hyperbole. In fact the problem with older people and medical care is that we can't easily decide for ourselves when we want to go

I do feel for them, but why is it diagnosis by petition now? However many people sign up, they are not informed opinions and just wasting time and energy, ghastly people who want to force actions that suit their limited intellectual abilities and emotional maturity.

We seem to have arrived at the situation where public opinion or mob rule is holding sway in the most difficult and sensitive areas of life.....the Grenfell Tower situation is the same people saying they will not co operate with the judge......because he doesn't fit their identikit requirements....we have to be adult enough to let the experts do their jobs.

There are not always good outcomes from bad situations however many FB friends join the campaign.

I am not sure what dying with dignity is and some part of me is with his parents in their hopes of a miracle, we may face a similar situation in our family, we have decided if the worst happens we would let go..........but could we, if we had to?

Five doctors, from various parts of the world and one eminent chemist have now said the medicine could work. It's taken by mouth and crosses the brain barrier. GOSH have been messing about with this child for 7 months now when various courts have said the machines could be turned off. If he has a chance of life he should get it US will give the treatment free even sending it over here if the baby can't travel, so someone's pretty sure he could benefit. Only 16 EVER known cases of this genetic condition and because no one managed to help the others this child should not just be written off. Even if this IS the end, why can't the parents take him home to die as they want to? Time to end these inhumane rulings. Look at Aysha King whose parents were told he'd be blind, deaf and brain damaged at the end of his cancer treatment. Fancy hunting the parents down across the continent! Thanks to the parents (not the doctors) he is in mainstream school and u tube shows him learning to ride a bike! Time for less draconian measures here in the civilised and caring UK.

It must be incredibly difficult these days when a baby is born with these problems, as they can now be kept alive artificially with ruly awful disabilities. It must take enormous strength for parents to agree to the removal of life support I really can't imagine what it must be like.

There was a message on the internet page of a leading paper the other day saying 'Don't pretend you care about Charlie Gard if you don't come to the rally to support him'. Where has dignity and consideration gone when people are shouting and waving placards when they are ignorant of the facts? What do they think they will achieve? GOS Hospital staff are among the best in the world, they have the informed opinion, and his parents will fight to the last breath to keep him alive and try to help. Someone said the tragedies in this life are the conflict between two rights - and never was this better demonstrated. So sad, and through it all this tiny child, who is apparently deaf and blind, is living a life that none of us can know. Who can say what he is going through?

I'm ok thanks. I know how to make my own decisions and your comment is rather judgy.
Not all doctors and nurses are fabulous and pretending that they are doesn't help anyone.
The young are tremendously disparaging to the old.
And let's not beat about the bush here, decisions in hospitals are often driven by financial considerations.

TBH, I think pretending that the NHS is full of angels won't do anything to improve matters. Besides, it's my opinion and I'm entitled to it, as are you my love, but don't imply that we don't have the brains to choose how we die or if it ain't your way it's wrong.

So well said Day6 totally agree.

NellD there is not the slightest shred of evidence that Charlie's care is being affected by resource considerations - do you know of such evidence? No one is pretending the NHS is perfect but I think the staff at GOSH are certainly of a high and caring calibre. As for the young bring tremendously disparaging to the old - what a hard and dreadful sweeping statement - I'm sorry if that's your experience but it's not shared by everyone. I don't understand your last sentence at all so can't comment on it.

Hollycat, Speaking from a past experience, I found your post unbelievably awful. Uninformed, judgemental and wrong.
Especially the comment " GOSH have been messing about with this child for 7 months"
How low and inaccurate is that? Unacceptable.
You really have no idea do you?

Poor little Charlie, my heart goes out to him and his parents and all the medical team who have done their best for him ..... but I think the parents should have the last word because, after all, they have to live with whatever happens whereas the rest of us will eventually move on.