Calling introvert grans

No simplistic answers to this situation ethelwulf and I find it 'bizarre' to even think so. We must agree to differ.

Jane 10.
How true.' Fairly typical of her own upbringing'
I can identify my life where my mother was concerned to your comment.
Her words to me 'I am so sorry' came out of the blue when later in life she was staying with me after the loss of my aunt her sister.
She then related her childhood and the early days of her marriage as if wanting to eradicate the past, and realising she had not been the mother to me she should have been.
If we could only chose our relatives like we can chose our friends.

I agree with Elegran completely - introverts are not incapable of having feeling or indeed showing it but the way in which it is demonstrated is likely to differ from the gushing kisses on both cheeks that seem to have become de rigeur these days with people who are almost strangers. Introverts are loving and caring, extroverts are loving and caring - your mother falls into neither category. And I also agree with Jane10 that she will be a product of her own upbringing. Personally I can't understand how any grandma can have no interest in her grandchildren. Maybe she is just a very self-absorbed and selfish person, maybe she has some really deep self-esteem issues. One thing's for certain, if you feel so concerned you need to discuss it with her but not via email. It should be done face to face. Email can exacerbate things as once your sense of irritation is on paper (screen) it can't be retracted. You need a dialogue to get to the root of this. On the other hand - a three week adventure holiday?? Your mother clearly does have a concern for her grandchildren otherwise she wouldn't have raised this. In my working life I was frequently away from home on short trips abroad leaving my hubby to take care of my teenage daughter. I missed her dreadfully, and she me. I would never have chosen to make those trips, and certainly never have dreamed of choosing to leave her for three weeks while I went on an adventure challenge, so maybe you need to recognise that your own extroversion is right at the end of the spectrum - maybe that's too much for your mum to cope with.

I am very 'high' on the introvert scale. Have done Myers Briggs which proved it. Can't stand being in a crowd of people for too long, need my space, need retreat time, useless in discussions and group work as I don't say anything. No probs getting on with family...we are all different. Am good listener and good one to one.

What Jane10 is saying (and she has worked in mental health professionally) is "Give the mother a break. She was probably a victim, so was her mother, and so on and so on."

Just make sure you don't pass on the infection!

The ultimate answer to this is would be that only those who had a relaxed and happy relationship with their parents and is ready to continue that with their children should be allowed a licence to breed.

Anyone who had a bad time as a child and as a result is likely to find it difficult to bond with a child and treat them as psychiatrists recommend that they be treated (subject of course to current theories on childcare and nurturing - these change frequently) would be refused a licence. Those breaking the law would have the child taken from them and raised by approved adoptive or foster parents, and the miscreants spayed or neutered so that they couldn't offend again.

Outrage alert!!! - I am not actually recommending that ! But look at the problem without the filter of hurt and sentiment, and it is clear that you only get rid of an inherited damage by breaking the cycle, and the person suffering from the damage is mostly not in a position to heal themselves.

loopylou - I agree with you when you say "She had a lousy childhood but that doesn't and didn't give her the right to make me an angst-ridden child and adult."

Nothing justifies a mother making her child fear abandonment, telling her child there is something wrong with them simply because they disagree with her, lying to my father about things I never said to her, criticising me throughout adulthood ...the list goes on. I don't care about the reasons for her behaviour.

Whilst I know she was only doing her best and that she couldn't help herself, all she achieved was to make me very unhappy and self-critical and to make herself repellent not just to me but to my DH and DSs who witnessed her behaviour.

I look forward to a time when my anger will subside.

I was very moved by belinda49. Thank you for sharing that. I had a very complex relationship with my mum. Many of your stories have rung bells and if I got frustrated and angry with her I would then feel so remorseful. And my cousins and everyone outside the family thought she walked on water.....I know she loved me but she was very controlling and not being of the generation that had the vocabulary for such feelings didn't help. But in her last year I got her moved near me to a nursing home she was 94, and every night I visited her she looked miserable and I tried everything I could think of to make her life richer and when I said what do you want? She said that I didn't want to know ... she wanted to die. Luckily the morning that she died she put my hand on her cheek and said 'you are very kind' which was VERY KIND of her! Phew I didn't expect that. She too was a Leo and a 'know it all' but I knew deep down it was because she lacked the deeper self confidence she should have had. I remember when I got a highly competed for appointment that I really wanted she said I 'o well its a job'. And she didn't think it was any good till her 'superior' friend told her it was!!
She had a strange snobbishness.
But all in all she did the best job she could and I agree with jane10 on that. But not being able to share my frustration about her with others was difficult. So thank gn you for that. The other thing she used to do is show off about me to others, (embarrassing) and yet never praise me directly. Most odd. Though we do learn a lot from others' mistakes !!!

I’m saddened by many of the life stories on this thread which reveal varying degrees of what amounts to child abuse. That abuse has clearly scarred the lives of many of those of you who were the victims, and whilst I rejoice in the fact that some have clearly overcome their injury, others still appear to be struggling with unresolved feelings of personal guilt. I say to that latter group, it was never your fault, and you deserved so much better. I also say to those who are focusing on the “mental health” issues of the abusive parent, such issues may perhaps explain their behaviour, but should never ever be deployed as a means of somehow excusing it. Child abuse is wrong at every level.

Exactly, Pamaga abusing a child is never excusable, but having been abused themselves is an explanation - it is not that they are inherently cruel. If their legs were crippled because of past damage, they would not be able to walk, and if their ability to nurture is damaged by a past lack of nurture, it can affect their treatment of their own children. Some physical damage can be healed by pyhysiotherapy, and some emotional damage can be healed by the emotional equivalent of physiotherapy, or by subsequent events and relationships, but not every case.

pamaga I dont think it was child abuse I totally agree with Jane10 about it being related to the upbringing they had.It was different times.people behaved differently,there wasn't the "child worship" that happens nowadays when women declare they are their childs best friend and ACT as if they are.Thats frankly ridiculous ,a parent shouldn't try to be a best friend they should be able to set boundaries etc.The mothers spoken of here grew up in a very different climate ,when children should be seen and not heard ,when they obeyed without question what their elders said ,even when many were adults themselves.When fathers were at war so mothers had to be both parents and often were stricter as a result.By being harsh and disiplinarian they thought they were donig the best they could for their children and we shouldn't condemn them for their ways .It was all they knew .I'm also a person who looks at the reasons for behaviour rather than judge and I think some of you are being a wee bit unfair .You know the saying about walking miles in someone elses shoes? That might apply to you and your mum

I’m an introvert and was brought up in a very undemonstrative home. I find it difficult to show affection but am sure my children know how much I love them. None of them are very demonstrative either. I find it easier to show love to my grandchildren. But I’m not critical and do loads for them in other ways,

I am absolutely amazed that so many of us have had similar experiences with our Mums with praise and physical affection sadly missing. I cannot do a thing right in my Mums eyes, and everyone notices so I know it’s true. She is the most bossy opinionated person I have ever known and when young we were browbeaten to comply, so was my Dad ! I learned over the years to be assertive, and rose thro the ranks in my job and had 100 staff under me, but still she thought she had the right to tell me how to live my life. So I used my assertiveness training on her ! But in her eyes I was being stroppy because altho in my 60’s I should still do as I am told evidently. We are chalk/cheese, and whereas I can accept the differences, she can’t, because I am in the wrong, as always ! Last week she actually said that as she was my mother, she knows me better than anyone. My response was that she dosnt know me at all because she has never ever listened to anything that I have to say. Her friend agreed with me and for once Mum was silent. I have always let my 3 kids fly free, to be the people they want to be and I have a wonderful closeness with them all, and am showered with love and affection, with the grandkids too, it’s bliss. And anything Mum says goes in one ear and out the other, I like me even if she dosnt !!

Thank you to the OP - this thread has been very therapeutic, for those engaging and others like myself who are just reading.

I sincerely hope this goes nowhere near the media/social media as this is GN at its best

I wonder if this thread applies to so many of us as we are quietly on the Internet. Typical introverts.

My mother had a terrible life. From what I understand, she had a hard, poor upbringing. She then married my father, who was a violent, abusive alcoholic. She couldn't leave him as she had nowhere to go and was too ashamed to admit what was going on to her relatives, who lived in another country. She had 7 children and my father gave her money when he felt like it but he put himself first. She struggled to feed and clothe us from day to day. We were never shown any form of affection and it makes me smile these days when people say they tell their children they love them every day. That's wonderful and hopefully these children will feel secure and happy. However,
where in my mother's scenario would cuddling your children and telling them you loved them come in, when you were waiting for the next beating or whatever.? Me and my siblings have suffered through our upbringing and sometimes I have thought my mother should have done more but it was a different time. I love my family more than anything but have always struggled to show affection. Walk a mile in someone else's shoes is a good saying.

I am so sad that so many of you had such a difficult relationship with your mothers. My mother was quite different, although we halve never been a demonstrative family (my DC are th same) but we have always all got on well and know that we are loved. We all hate (and are embarrassed by ) overt demonstrations of affection! However a few years ago I decided that as I now feel obliged to kiss mere acquaintances at social gatherings that I should do th same for family, so I have braced myself and now greet all th C and spouses as well as GC with kisses. They put up with it with a grimace usually! Really, touchy feely hugging and kissing is not the only indicator of affection. However I am not negative or critical - quite the reverse , so there is more going on in the OP than merely being an introvert. That is an excuse!

I grew up with a narcistic grandmother and only realised after doing a psychology course in my fifties. I knew nothing about the existence of such people before that. But now I'm fully educated and understand this crippling personality disorder. I now realise why she was like she was and would encourage anyone to study the subject. It was such an eye opener. It can be hereditary which again is quite worrying. It certainly is much more than being an introvert.

I agree that the Mother of the OP may well be an introvert, but that isn’t the problem!
My own Mother was wonderful, so I consider myself very lucky after all the stories on here.So much unhappiness.

I really have no interest in what my mum's issues were. She was an aggressive, violent, un-loving alcoholic. Consumed with her beauty and her need for vodka. It wasn't my job as a child to decipher her problems. Thankfully she died aged 38 from an alcohol related illness and my anxiety started to ease somewhat. To those of you who suggest forgiveness and understanding of our parents foibles, I can only assume that you've never had to endure such horrors and would add that there are other coping mechanisms.

I can only speculate on how unhappy your mother must have been to have self medicated to the extent of death due to alcohol related illness. You very clearly simply cannot understand or begin to forgive her for the way she treated you and made you feel. However, she died a long time ago. Don't let her inadequate parenting skills cast too long a shadow over your own life.

I've just realised that my mother (and my father) has never said she loves me or given me a hug. Just how sad is that?
Thankfully I have very loving DCs, DDIL and DGSs, which really drives home to me the disfunctional relationship with my mother.

Jane10 - your cowboy armchair psychology is becoming irksome. I didn't ask for your advice. I've sought the help of more distinguished mental health professionals in the past and am aware of how to deal with my past.

'cowboy armchair psychology'
Nothing seems to have helped has it?!

Coolgran I've never heard that saying about the candles but I love it.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.