Behaviour of GS

The other thing to take into consideration maybe, is any side effects of his daily medication?

Hannah get off your bloody high horse. Nobody questioned this person’s qualifications, I questioned her professionalism.

DotMH -trisher is right when she says it's difficult to get help these days and making yourself heard is essential. I have an autistic grandson, now in his 20's and agree with all the comments about the way many people on the ASD take things literally.
Having a diagnosis can be helpful both at school and for the young person. Most teachers don't dismiss autism (adhd or any of the other disorders children live with). A diagnosis can help school put support in place and avoid adding to the pressures on the young person.
There is a difference between "ordinary"adolescent challenging behaviour and the behaviours shown by young people who are not only struggling with all that adolescence throws at them but also the additional pressures from ASD. I do hope your family get some support. Your GP is a good place to start, because you need a referral to CAHMS unless of course, you can afford to go privately

DotMH1901 So sorry to hear about your problem. I would raise this with everyone you can, your GS's school, his GP and his epilepsy specialist. It is so difficut to get help these days and the more fuss you make the more likely it is that he will be helped. Regarding his epilepsy medicine there is some evidence that when children with long-term conditions reach adolescence they find things difficult to handle. They mess about with their medication and sometimes take chances and huge risks. With diabetes and other conditions this can lead to permanent damage. When he next sees his consultant ask him about this and about counselling for your GS. In the meantime you may have to dish his medicine out to him-although this might cause more rebellion. Good luck. Teenagers are never easy and your GS has a lot to deal with.

This boy's problems do need further investigation.

It could just be 'teenage problems', ie testosterone rising, testing the boundaries, thinking that answering his mother in a 'Smart Alec' fashion is clever, kicking against authority figures such as teachers - added to which he is probably accessing the internet to all hours on his tablet and not getting enough sleep (and what is he accessing online?) and generally rebelling.

However, until he is seen by someone who is able to make a diagnosis or decide that this is just normal, if extreme, teenage behaviour, then it is difficult to know the best way to handle the situation.

Mother sounds as if she is exhausted with the efforts and I wonder whether his father is in the picture at all?

My son has Aspergers, although he is not severely affected.
His school years were difficult, especially when he was teenage, demonstrating all the behaviour described by the OP. Some of this of course was normal teenage awkwardness, but he was different to his peers.
He wasn’t diagnosed until he was fifteen, and it was a relief to know that we had something to work with.
He’s a clever chap, who managed a good degree despite his challenges, and now age 41, he’s a charming and popular man, whose colleagues describe him as ‘lovably eccentric’. It’s very good to see him sailing in calm waters after the difficult years.
I would say that it’s important to have a proper assessment of your young man to see where he stands and what his needs are. It’s also necessary to ensure that he doesn’t have any underlying illness which might account for his present difficult behaviour.
I do hope all turns out well for him.

It takes two to have an argument so my motto when looking after children is never let yourself get into one. Say what you need to say clearly and logically and walk away. Remove the audience which is yourself. Make a piece of toast and a cup of tea or whatever and sit down and calm yourself. Don't be drawn into the back and forth chat which children love. Don't let them control the mood.
Whatever the age of the child, if they cannot show that they can be responsible for administering tablets then they need to be locked away and dispensed one at a time until they can prove they can do the correct thing. These are serious drugs if they are only available on prescription and should be treated as such.
Try and get an assessment and be supportive of the school.

OldMeg, Hellmonty was simply saying that non autistic teenagers often display this awkward argumentative behaviour. Nothing wrong with them, they just don't want to follow the rules, so it's not helpful for you to question her qualifications. Rude in fact.

Autism certainly exists. My stepson has autism and he acts, at times, in a similar way. So do some non-autistic teenagers. But your grandson does sound as though he needs some help.

An assessment would be a good way forward.

I suspect he is too immature to manage his epilepsy medication on his own if he is missing doses and getting out of order with them. Hopefully, he isn’t doubling up some days and missing others.

Hope it is resolved soon, a very difficult time for you and your daughter ?

As an SLT, I was responsible for screening and referral of pre-schoolers to the autism diagnostic group at our local Child and Adolescent Mental Health Team, and then for assessment of communication skills and therapy. Teens were not my remit, but I think there's a distinct possibility that your DGS is on the autistic spectrum, and it is worth asking for a referral to CAMHS. In the meantime, it's worth having very clear but realistic boundaries. Unlike Hellmonty, I don't think it sounds as though this boy has dreamt up an excuse just to annoy his family. Epilepsy often co-exists with ASD, and he clearly isn't making that up! I have known a number of people with ASD who were not diagnosed until later childhood or even middle age.

I immediately thought Aspergers. Covering every possible permutation - inability to moderate loudness of voice according to circs - things always someone else's fault.They are unable to see things from the other person's point of view so therefore think they are always right. Very acute hearing.

A lot of politician's have the syndrome (seriously). Aspergers people are usually of average or above average intelligence - they have terrific focus and the biggest concentration of them is to be found at Oxbridge.

newnanny the important thing about getting them "classified" is that it means more support is available to them. The school GS1 is moving up to will be having an inset day so that all the staff can be told about the children like him who will be starting in September, so they are prepared for any problems.

The wrong teacher can have an awful effect. GS1 had a young one who was very nice but had no idea what to do with him. Every day when I picked him up we would have a long lecture on what he'd done wrong and why he wasn't going to do it tomorrow. As the poor child had no understanding of what he'd done wrong it was just piling on more stress. Diagnosis and an understanding teacher made all the difference.

Gherkin these things were happening with my DGS 1 when he was at school. He was only 6 or 7 and thought that the other boys were playing with him, when in fact they were bullying him. As he doesn't pick up on facial expressions, and takes everything literally he didn't know the difference.
I know every parent would not be confident with taking their child/children out of school and educating them at home, but this is what my DD has done. The DGC are so much happier, they attend a home ed. group locally so still have social interaction and have many friends.

My grandson is 15 and autistic He takes everything literally and has been in trouble a lot at school, stealing silly things “because a certain somebody “ told him to, disrupting the class, getting into fights. Other boys at school tell him to do things and he does plus he is bullied. It worries me sick!

I would suggest your Grandson gets som expert advice, he may need help, on the other hand he is a teenager, and lots of different behaviour may accompany his age.
I hope he gets help and has a lovely life in the future.

I look after child who has a lot autistic traits but not enough for classification of autism. I don't think it matters if children are classified or not because there is no treatment available. Just knowing, shows a good number of autistic traits, means others can be more aware.

O.M.G! lets hope there arent too many teachers like Hellomonty! sorry, but ive had a few 'run-ins'at my sons school who have given me grief over my sons behaviour/forgetfulness/etc and as it turns out its things he cant help! Things are changing in schools-but far too slowly-and it needs to be addressed by medical 'experts' and education authories alike! And yes,things can go undiagnosed for years-over 30 yrs in some cases!not everyone is just a teenager who'se 'playing up'-which is part of reason some diagnosis take longer than they should need to!

Well it does soynd like typical Autism for a young man his age. You have the typical growing teenager ans his Autism. He will have Sensory Processing Issues and Hypersensitivity along quth other possible issues
It is important he is well managed..
I an an ABA therapist. Child Psychotherapist. Behaviour and Son Rise Therapist.
His Autism sounds moderate to severe and he is no doubt on a schedule if some sort to deal with his behaviour ans other needs. Stick to his management plan and refer him back ro the Educational Psychologist for advice
Joseph

The 'walking oddly' isnt atypical of autism-but often another cause 'ties-in' with the ASD - my son was walking oddly-turned out to be undiagnosed cp-but the ASD symptoms were apparent for years.different diagnoses are found in some children/adults but may or may not be linked,but are personal to that particular person.

The school need to refer him to eductional psychology for any assessment of his learning needs, IIRC?

Worth pushing this since he still has two or so more years of school and may be more likely to achieve his potential at A level if he has the appropriate supports/accommodation?

Yes people on autistiic spectrum do take things literally everyone saying that is right.but i too had problems for yrs trying to get a diagnosis for my son as his paediatric consultant kept saying " theyre just teenage things"-but they were not! He reacts in some of the ways you describe-Hes now only just being sorted an appt with CAMHS at 15,and we still have a long way to go i suppose! But yes stick with it- it may have to be his parent who fights this- not grandparent however.but am sure you could go along for support if your daughter finds it all a bit daunting?

Unless one is 'expert' in a certain field then the only one to put your mind at rest is to go to an 'expert' for guidance. You will be helping your daughter as much as her son as the longer you leave it the worse it will get.
Talk to your GP who will put you and your daughter in the right direction.

Good post Caramac

Thank you all for your replies and suggestions - GS medication for his epilepsy is being reviewed so he has an appointment this month with the consultant and his GP so DD has decided to ask again about whether he should be assessed.

Apologies! For 'foster' please read 'looked after' as required by the change in acceptable vocabulary.