Irish Abortion Laws

There always has been and always will be abortion regardless what the law says.The main difference is that it is the poor who die when it’s not legal

Quite so, Maryeliza. I saw some stats for abortions recently and the majority in the U.K. take place in women from the lower socioeconomic groups. I'm guessing they may well be the ones who find it harder to access and use contraception, too.

I am prolife but I understand in certain circumstances the best decision is to end the baby's life. But not because its inconvenient. And I do feel that to use the excuse of they will do it anyway is silly. Thats like saying people will use drugs anyway so lets legalise them. But I do agree even if people agree with the law change the jubilation was in poor taste. The other thing that annoys he is how so many blame it on religious zealots. Many people who aren't religious at all are prolife. I think the law in N Ireland needs expanded a bit to include rape incest and ffa and maybe other special circumstances but not generally available.
People are never going to agree though. We might as well stop debating.

I agree Anep ,we dont need to debate it,its been sorted for the thousands of women who were in need of terminations in Ireland .Giiving THEM the control of their own bodies their government thought they shouldn't have.Now NI needs to follow suit

As you've mentioned drugs, Annep, maybe you'd like to learn about how Portugal has dealt with its illegal drug problem by decriminalising them.

www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/05/portugals-radical-drugs-policy-is-working-why-hasnt-the-world-copied-it

Serkeen You say ^"How awful must it be for the Doctors that perform abortion because after all they spend 7/9 years of their precious lives learning how to SAVE people lives^" but how awful the woman who has that abortion must feel, too. She has feelings too, and if she discovers :-

that the consequence of her husband's/partner's repeated insistence on sex without waiting to take precautions results in repeated pregnancies, and telling him that contraception is a good thing falls on deaf ears.

that after experiencing the hell of a violent rape she is carrying the child of her attacker, and for the rest of her life she will see his face in the face of that child.

that after being sexually abused by a family member she is carrying an incestuously conceived child.

that an experiment in "you show me and I'll show you" means she is carrying another child while she is still a child herself.

that it is not true that you can't get pregnant if you do it standing up.

that her plans for education, a decent job and an independent and fulfilling life have gone down the drain because she followed her instincts one night.

that a planned and wanted child will die at or near birth and break her heart.

that her child will face a life of pain, disability, disfigurement, and misery.

that to look after that child adequately she will have to neglect her existing children.

If YOU discovered one or several of these things. you would not be feeling too gung-ho either. If the medical profession turned you away, then can you really say with hand on heart that you would not be tempted to seek help from someone who "knew what to do" ?

I’m pro choice and pro life. The difference is in how life is defined.

For all the reasons you have given Elegran there must be that choice for women. Of course there must. The only thing I did find a little unsettling was the wild cheering and flag waving that greeted the ruling. Somehow, given the nature of what is to be allowed now within the law, excitement and jubilation didn't seem to be the right reaction. Abortion must surely be a source of great unhappiness and turbulence in the life of any woman, for whatever reason, even if it is accompanied by great relief.

I fully understood the cheering and banner waving given what Irish women had been subject to over over the years. They worked hard for their victory and endured much personal vilification in achieving that aim. When you think of the powerful forces that had been ranged against them for decades, I still find it amazing that they won and so decisively.

I suspect relief was behind most of the cheering, relief that there was a chance of legally avoiding the great unhappiness and turbulence of continuing with pregnancy and the raising of a child in one of the circumstances I listed. Plus a degree of jubilation at the success of their campaigning.

We can discuss this all we like but the law will be changed and that is how it should be in the 21st century.

I think there was also great relief that women would not be left to die anymore because a non-viable fetus was deemed more important than the life of the woman.

I think the unnecessary death from sepsis of the young doctor Savita Halappanavar was an important case in Ireland. Savita was refused a termination because the miscarrying fetus still had a heartbeat and the effect of the delay was a terrible infection and death from septic chock.

Halappanavar was admitted to University hospital in Galway on 21 October 2012, when she was 17 weeks pregnant with her first child. Medical staff concluded that a miscarriage was inevitable but did not intervene – despite requests from Halappanavar and her husband for an abortion – as a foetal heartbeat could be detected.

A few days later, medics diagnosed infection as a result of ruptured membranes and, later septic shock. Halappanavar died on 28 October. In media interviews in the following weeks, Praveen Halappanavar said he and his wife had repeatedly asked for the pregnancy to be terminated after her admission to hospital, but they had been told: “This is a Catholic country”.
www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/26/savita-halappanavar-father-thanks-irish-voters-for-historic-abortion-vote

The jubilation was for many things. Savita Halappanavar will never be forgotten and the many women before her. Women with ffa rape victims and those with crisis pregnancies will now be treated in their own country.
Ireland was the first country in the world to legalize gay marriage so the law needed to be changed to bring Ireland into the 21st century. The experience of taking the boat will never be forgotten. The yes vote campaigned from 1983 for this vote. We also must not forget the Magdelen women and the tuam babies case. Ireland had to give women a choice and the women of Ireland gave there decision.

Serkeen
*I truly believe that in the UK people have a higher regards for animals over children
if this were an animal that were to loose its life how do you think the UK would react?*

I think you I’ll find millions of animals are killed horribly on a daily basis in abattoirs all over this country. You find them on plastic trays in the supermarket. You may have eaten a body part of one for dinner. I think many in the U.K. don’t care about animals loosing their lives unfortunately as long as they can eat them . Not sure what that’s got to do with this debate.

MawBroon.

Nobody 'approves of' or likes elective abortion.

We all know that in our lives we have to choose and on many occasions there is only a less bad option whatever we choose.

The argument in favour of abortion on demand has used rape, incest, damaged foetus’s, .

Nearly 4,000 women in Ireland had abortions in England in 2016, seems there is a lot of rape , incest and babies with no chance of survival in Ireland.

It’s wrong to use the death of one woman or the rape of one 12 year old , why not just say ‘inconvenient pregnancies which is the reason for most abortions,
.

Thank you Alexa.

Someone very close to me had two small children, 3 and 18 months and was newly pregnant with a much wanted third child when she was diagnosed with aggressive breast cancer.

She chose an abortion and treatment and is , thankfully, still here to mother her little sons as they grow up.

In Ireland she would have been refused an abortion and probably any treatment that would have killed the foetus. Delaying treatment for 7 months would have fatal.

I think she made the right decision. But you would have that decision taken away from her Serkeen, two or maybe three children left without a mother, a husband who lost the wife he loved, parents who lost their daughter.

As Alexa says sometimes it’s about choosing the less bad option.

I’d be interested in your viewpoint on this.

ab not ‘inconvenient pregnancies’ but pregnancies that women chose not to continue with. Their bodies, their choice.

Because the pregnancy is inconvenient , the reason for the majority of abortions, so why not say so.

I think ab the cases of rape, ffa are brought up because in Ireland ( until now) and NI even these cases aren’t allowed and that demonstrates the utter inhumanity of societies that treat women as incubators irrespective of the circumstsnces of the pregnancy. Using the word ‘ inconvenient’ is also very ‘loaded’. Why should women continue with a pregnancy they don’t want, whatever the reason and who has the right to decide what the ‘right’ reason is?

So Annie in your world every 17 year old who gets pregnant MUST carry that child,disrupt her life and education and live on the state ..oh wait 17 year olds dont get benefits .Now how does that work.Families already under financial strain should be forced to look after it.You can bet your life most 17 year old boys wont step up and take responsibility .
I think on the other thread I told of the girl I know whose BF said he would kick it out of her ..a real charmer.
Of course YOU think theres always adoption ..only there isn't.There are hundreds of thousands of children in care already with no hope of a family ..so why add to that awful statistic with the extra issue of thousands of women reluctantly carrying babies they dont want/cant afford.
Safe terminations at an early stage of pregnancy is the only answer.Late abortions aren't a common occurence in this country and only given in very extreme circumstances

The majority of children for adoption are deeply troubled children, many adoptions fail and the damaged child taken back into care. These children can be violent, abusive because they are so damaged. There are very, very few babies for adoption. If a small child is in need of a loving home the adoptive parents have to accept the birth mother will have a say in the child’s upbringing. It is not how it was fifty years ago. And Paddyann, I do not have a ‘my world’

Abortions are allowed in Northern Ireland

To preserve the life of the woman.

Adverse effect on the woman’s mental or physical health

The law regarding the morning after pill is wrong, this would save many healthy babies from being aborted.

Birth mothers are not always allowed to maintain contact with their adopted children’s lives - it all depends on the circumstances. It’s estimated that between 3-9% of adoptions fail with more families needing professional help but a shortage of resources to fund the help needed. As you say ab many children up for adoption have very troubled pasts. Part of that results from the lack of resources in SS who can do less and less preventative/ supportive work and are doing more emergency crisis work when it’s nearly always too late.

The law in NI is one if the most restrictive in Europe. It’s draconian and can never be described as giving women choice - Lady Hale’s judgement says it all.