MIL/DIL - Help me understand my MIL

Flossie I think a surprise party for your child is quite different to DIL17's MIL arranging a surprise party for her own son.

I can understand fully how you were upset about this especially if she put out food your son couldn't eat.

My own children have rules about how they bring up their children too but are kind enough to realise that an occasional spoiling by doting grandparents (watching a DVD when they eat, staying up a bit later than usual, rolling around on the floor having fun) is not going to ruin their children's lives or make them spoilt.

We are blessed with grandchildren who although they are now mostly in their teens still want to be with us and have fun like they did when they were little. They are all full of hugs and cuddles when they see us even though quite grown up. I doubt we would have had such a loving relationship if they had not been allowed to be with us.

She is deliberately undermining you and also she should have rang you about the surprise party. By not telling you it was a one upmanship against you. Childish and nasty. In your position I would be wary of this woman poisoning the child against you. This person is very devious as she appears soft but has a sneaky side. Myself I would limit contact for yourself and your child

DIL17 You ask 2 questions so I'll try to answer them.
Why she ignores what we say as parents
She obviously wants to be the lovely GM who lets her GD get away with things and spoils her. I don't think she is ignoring you as parents more that she is desperate to make sure your GD loves her. It's strange because actually this sort of strategy rarely works, children appreciate boundaries and rules and love the people who keep their lives ordered and safe. So ignore her behaviour. As your DD gets older you can talk to her about GPs and spoiling. It's often assumed that children can't cope with different sets of rules but actually they fully understand and adjust. You DD will be fine and will still abide by your rules in your house. Although she might give her GPs a hard time as she gets older.
* How do I get her to see that it is a problem that needs to be sorted.*
You don't. You self preserve as far as possible. So when she does something like the birthday party, you smile sweetly and say "How lovely". Bullies gain part of their satisfation from watching how distressed their targets get. Stay strong and refuse to let her upset you.
If you want to retaliate a little you could make sure you and your DH are extra affectionate and close when she is around.

Oh dear sazzl, ‘undermining, nasty, devious, cruel, sneaky, childish oneupmanship, poisonous... all in a short post.

She is a narcissist and she is unlikely to change.She will have no consideration for you or your feelings.You need to look up narcissism and how to deal with it.I have had problems with my mother in law all my married life and she has not changed in all the time i have known her.But there are ways of dealing with them ,you need to look into it and decide how you want to deal with your mother in law for your own sanity not hers.I still have a somewhat limited relationship with mine but it's not easy as they will not change as they don't think they are doing anything wrong as they have no empathy for you what so ever.

I am sorry you are finding things difficult with your mil but it's lovely that you are trying to find a way through. I know from experience that it is so hard as a mum to share your son with your d-i-l, when you have been close to him for 20 odd years. It's tricky to get the relationship right. It's so easy for well meaning intentions to be misunderstood and over-thought by both parties. My own m-i-l doted on my dh and I found that tricky, and it has taken time for me and my own dil to become supportive friends. After a difficult couple of years we had a heart to heart and sorted a lot of misunderstandings out. Now we speak openly and honestly to each other, but kindly.
I remember asking my dh what he thought his mum wanted, and he said that she would probably like to be able to go shopping with me and chat like friends. He was exactly right and when I relaxed and stopped regarding her well meaning comments as interference and undermining, we eventually became great friends. When she died at 95 it was me she wanted with her. Good luck, you seem to be doing the right things and I hope you work your relationship out. A bit of kindness and understanding goes a long way.

Do you think Dikdat just posts things to wind people up?

You and your child, me and my child.

Is this what a child is? A belonging to be used to punish grandparents? A tool to be used to beat them with.

What about DH is he not included? The child is part of the grandparents too.

In time your children will grow up. They will have minds of their own. They may not agree with you. They may want contact with their grandparents and wonder why they have not been allowed to see them.

They could (as happens in some cases) choose to leave home and go and live with their grandparents.

Just because you can't or won't get on with the grandparents does not mean that your children will feel the same.

Is it not worth trying to be a bit more tolerant, flexible and understanding in order to stop estrangement if at all possible?

What a lovely post Rilla

I have two DIL's both have rules regarding their children and I adhere to those rules (whether I agree or not is besides the point) if I go over to see them with a few treats In my bag I always ask dil if it's ok first for them to have them, you never know if the little darlings have misbehaved !! Things have change a lot regarding child rearing and you have to go with the times or frankly not see your grandchildren. I do think she is undermining you and your husband is responsible for both you and your children's wellbeing not just himself OLDBATTY!

As a MIL who doesn’t have as close a relationship with my DIL I wanted to try and offer my perspective as you’ve asked. For over 20 years my DS was close to me and we knew about his life. Fast forward 10 years, DIL and 3DGC and I’ve obviously had to take a big step back. Natural but sometimes sad because it’s DIL who decides if and when we see them around special occasions. He went to Uni as a mature student and graduated this summer but forgot to invite us to his celebration meal, maybe genuinely. My point is that it’s hard to feel excluded from your child’s life and can be difficult to adapt to as a mum, despite them being an adult. I’m not excusing your MIL for the birthday party. She really should have included you in discussions before changing the arrangements. But maybe think of how inclusive you are of MIL in her sons life and how willing you are to get to know her as an individual not just MIL. Can you plan visits to afternoon tea or spa or something just the 2 of you to try and build your relationship? Or include her in discussions about your lives? Maybe she’s feeling pushed out? Or maybe she’s just interfering and controlling! Time will tell lol. Glad you’re trying though.

So why is it that mil can host a party and exclude dil, the spouse, from the planning and in return, it would be wrong to exclude the mil from helping with the child’s party?

Mil knows exactly what she is doing. She can try to hold on to her baby boy all she wants; but then when the cards are turned and the OP holds on to her boy and excludes mil, mil should know what her own medicine tastes like.

My own MIL was very much like this and damaged my relationship with my children She was very jealous of my relationship with her son

I can't quite believe some of the responses on this thread - the idea that a mother is OK to organise a surprise birthday party for her married son and not even tell her dil that she would like to do this is outrageous. Why on earth should any dil put up with this because all it does is confirm the mother in her ideas that she can meddle in the relationship between her son and dil - and that's what it is - it's meddling. I can see that this woman has access to her grand-daughter without her mother and frankly I would be concerned about this because she may well be passing on all sorts of undesirable ideas and even making disparaging remarks about the child's mother. There's another child on the way - my advice is to get hubby on side now and tell the grandma how things are going to be.

Sazz. This is one of my fears. Mil tries to out do and out mom me. I’ll never give her the chance to succeed.

Her niece prefers her to her own mother and I can see the problems it has caused for mils sil - mil seems to be pleased that the niece comes to her.

So I make it a point to let mils sil hold and play with my baby. Maybe I’ll post pics of them together in baby’s book.

I am surprised that people think that it is hard to let your child go. I find that so difficult to understand. Every life stage, school, leaving home, finding a partner should be something to celebrate.

I believe if you stand right back, offer only praise and friendship, your adult children will still respect you and be willing to visit.

I have to agree with Old Meg - I am nana, and I spoil them. I do not undermine any serious or hard and fast rules, but I am much softer on my GC. But as a whole, that is our families way. Don't sweat the small stuff, but be prepared to stand up for the more important issues. She should have told you about the party for your DH, but it isn't the end of the world. Next year - message her before the day to check if she is planning something.

Reading your original post, it struck me that your MIL has had five years to get accustomed to the fact that you and your DH are bringing your child up more strictly than she, now she is a grannie, thinks is necessary. How did she bring your DH and his sister up? Was she always easy-going, or is this only because as a grandmother she is does not need to be the disciplarian?

IMO your MIL is quite definitely in the wrong when she undermines your way of bringing up your child, soon to be children. She is also in the wrong when she treats you as a child, instead of respecting you as an adult. Does she treat your husband and sister-in-law in the same way?

Next time she treats you as a child, ask her politely not to do so. She will probably take no notice, but as long as you do not mention that it annoys you, she can just turn round and say that she has always treated you like that and that you have never said it bothered you.

Frankly, I don't think you can win with this woman. It might just help if your husband told his mother not to treat you like a child and not to undermine your or his way of bring up your child.

I would continue to visit and to invite her, but I would not let a five year old stay alone with a person who continually behaves as your MIL does. However, you and your DH need to be in agreement as to how you tackle this.

I very much agree with this.

Diktat I did not say (if it's me your talking about) that it was wrong for you to exclude your MIL from planning your child's party. I wouldn't necessarily expect you to include her in the planning but I am talking about the fact that you say she will be 'completely excluded ' (I take this to mean not even invited).

You also say you will make a memory book for your child with only pictures of your mother. You then add you may well also include pictures of your MILs SIL holding your baby in the book too. Diktat why would you do this? Revenge, spite? Are these good feelings to pass onto your child. If you have no forgiveness in you and you pass that onto your child then one day you may do something your child won't forgive you for and you will be excluded too.

Don't forget DIL17's MIL did not exclude her from the party but just kept it as a surprise.

I’m assuming this is your idea of a joke. Not a funny one though. If it’s not a joke, I think the label “cunning” applies to you really.

Beau, I am aware that pregnancy hormones can make a mother more sensitive but in this situation when feeling constantly undermined it is very easy to feel this way, so I think the label of overly sensitive is quite harsh

My MIL was much the same, but I don’t think she was deliberately undermining. She was just incredibly insensitive & basically stupid about relationships & boundaries. She was also the widowed mother of an only son, which is about the most likely combination to result in an over indulgent Nana!
I always found it difficult, but that the best way was to follow the advice given above - avoid potentially difficult situations as much as politely possible, keep smiling through gritted teeth at family gatherings, but consistently and firmly stick to your own rules with regard to things like over extravagant presents. She will never change whatever you do or say and it’s not fair to your husband to make him piggy in the middle.
(For information, my husband got so fed up of his mother’s behaviour that he increasingly avoided contact with her to the extent that when we eventually split up he hardly ever visited her and I was the one who enabled her to maintain contact with DGD!)

Looking back I feel that moving near my parents once I had children would have been much better for me. I had almost no hands on help when my children were small, and I put up with behaviour ranging from unhelpful to rather odd from MIL.
Funny (now) examples include feeding the children crisps on the 5 minute drive back to our house for Christmas lunch which they then didn't want, walking through my house tutting because there were toys on the floor (no phone call to ask if ok to visit) and weirdest of all walking in without knocking on a work day which was H birthday and expecting me to somehow conjure him up!
Still I can proud that I always facilitated the son and grandson relationships.
Now I have a GS at least I know some of the do-nots!

Sorry for not replying for a while. Also didn't think I'd get many answers!

I think with the party is was just the last little thing that tipped my edge. It was the fact that she called round everyone else to tell them and let them know, as she put it "his family" that was the hard part.

Yes with softness she doesn't believe in discipline really. She thinks that you should sit a toddler down and discuss things and then just give them a hug. My DD plays that well and will just say okay and do it again. She doesn't like that we are firm and use things like a naughty step and confiscation of toys.

I get what Diktat is saying about rewarding but the issue isn't with DD and I think cutting her off is going to make it worse and more of a headache.

Also, Doodle I get your point about doting grandparents and I'm happy with the odd treat like magazines, crafts, days out, but behaving at meal times and having ipads ect I don't think that should be a compromise. My husband says it's unsociable and I think it distracts her from actually eating her food.

I feel like she assumes we can't parent but as I've said before, I honestly don't think she realises that she does these things and that's hard. If you try to highlight it, she just cries and sulks.

She's due to come over tomorrow for DDs family birthday tea. I'm hoping we can be civil as I plan to be. It's not that I hate her, I just want to her to acknowledge that she isn't DDs parent and it's not her place to overstep us both.