No Idea What To Do Next

Just an after thought. If you didn't take your grandchildren to see their mother would she be too likely to kick up a fuss. I don't know if she would want social services digging in to her life style. It's just a thought, you, probably like me and most of us on here are reluctant to go against any order which is in place. I know the girl is on drugs, but she seems totally oblivious to the fact that as their mother she should be putting their welfare first.

Things have probably changed since I had problems with my daughter's father but I encouraged my eldest to keep a diary of her contact time with him, which, as well as being evidence, helped her to get it "off her chest" by writing it all down. I also had a welfare officer attached to us and he occasionally went in when the girls were with their father to see what was happening - it was called a supervision order and was ordered by the court.
Do hope something can be done to resolve this issue soon for you and your gd's.

This ex DIL needs help. She is obviously scared and probably can't see a way out of the situation, have you tried contacting her to offer help? No one has mentioned the baby half sister. She is in more danger because she cannot speak for herself or use a mobile to alert someone. I am amazed that they have been allowed to keep the baby. I understood (from TV) that drug addicts had their baby taken away at birth. The school is an excellent start to get safeguarding help. Authorities listen more to other professionals and they will not want to be seen ignoring concerns. Certainly, get evidence from the girls but don't delay in contacting the police.

You mention the advice given by agencies is impractical. Is there any way, with your help, that it can be made to work? You also mention threats made by your ex-DIL’s partner, on more than one occasion, to harm your GD’s and the baby as well as evidence of domestic violence. Whatever the court says, please don’t risk putting the children in harms way. It’s better to take immediate action to keep them safe, even if it doesn’t comply with the court order, than to regret it if something dreadful happens. They may have already seen, heard or been involved in more than children their age should have.

I think I would refuse to hand them over. Your DiL may not even notice if she is under the influence and it doesn't sound as if her partner is bothered.
Too often SS etc step in too late.

Lots of good advice above and I agree to telling the school so they can look out for anything suspicious. I also think you should keep a record of who you speak to at the various authorities, the time and date. Sometimes when they see you right their name down it makes a difference.

As soon as you see something unacceptable contact the police and the SS, do it every time until they take notice.

Giving the eldest a phone which your number in is a great idea.

Nothing to add to previous posters' excellent advice except the following. Ensure that you put any concerns that you raise with the authorities in writing (not emails) and keep hard copies so that the situation cannot be overlooked. The help is out there but staff are so desperately overworked.

You could also tell the GC that if she sees any violence she should call 999.

If the mother's partner has genuinely threatened the lives of your GDs and the responsible agencies have ignored this I would inform the police. People threaten all sorts of things and don't mean it (I'm going to leave you etc.,) but threatening to kill two girls is not on - it's emotional bullying, and it's no wonder they are terrified. Such terror could damage their lives irrespective of whether they are physically harmed. A word of warning - drug addicts do not know what they are doing half the time. Sure, we can feel some sort of pity for those who are addicted but we have to take a utilitarian approach here - it's the greatest good for the greatest number. A drug addict who regularly threatens life definitely sees this as an option.

Good advice from Monica and also making sure your gd has your phone number. Just keep reporting any incident to the police and SS. Good luck

There is a clear safe-guarding issue here.
Speak to the school. They will be able to 'raise a concern' , just as you will. If the psychologist sessions have finished then the children will be eligible for school counselling. The counsellor is obliged to speak to the Child Protection Officer if she/he has concerns. Every concern raised forms part of the bigger picture when Social Services investigate the case.

Good advice from monica

There should only be supervised access for your ExDIL. Sounds like she's in a co dependent relationship that will end in tears.

I do understand your reluctance to intervene but ask yourself how you would feel if you handed those children over and something did happen to them.

There's your answer. But make sure you go through official channels. If you report to the authorities and they refuse to listen, ask for it in writing. There are few now that would take the risk if it's been officially reported to them. They will usually put the children first.

Good advice from Monica and I wouldn't hand over the children in 4 days time, I would make an excuse like they're both poorly with dreadful colds so best to keep them at home.

We found the NSPCC, also mentioned by RillaofIngleside, provided the most effective action and advice in a comparable situation. Also, a joint letter to the Director of Children's Services from your self and your son may be worth considering also.

Excellent advice from Monica, also contact the NSPCC. and ensure that the girls' school is totally aware of the situation. It isn't being 'alarmist' it is preventing a potentially dangerous situation and safeguarding your precious granddaughters. Keep us posted, please, as there is so much sound advice here.

Everything Monica said...you can't be too careful where children's safety is concerned ...plus keep dated copies of what you've said to these agencies and any written replies. If you are contacting by phone make sure you write down the names of people you speak to. If they say they'll get back to you ask for a time frame and recontact if necessary.

sharon103

The thing is, the mother could accuse the father (rightly) of parental abduction. If he does decide that he needs to seek primary custody of his children, the judge will not look at that kindly. In the absence of professionally identified risks, realistically, he has no option but to give them to her. Objectively, too, the children have a right to have a relationship with their mother.

I'm not saying the circumstances are ideal. They're hardly so. But legally, the son does not have the right to deny his children a relationship with their mother. There are appropriate authorities and agencies whose job it is to identify safeguarding concerns. If those agencies have failed to identify a problem, it is not incumbent on the son to decide for himself that his ex isn't safe.

Lisigp60
When you said your daughter in law is addicted to 'ice' did you mean spice?
I hope to God that your grandchildren never see her in the grip of this drug.
Users of this drug are not just comatose, they can become violent.

Crystal meths is ice.

Hazy52 - what tv programme led to you believe 'drug addict's' had their children removed at birth? The majority of children known to agencies as being 'at risk' have parents who are addicted to drugs/alcohol and living in homes which are chaotic and often violent.
We have huge problems in this country.

I can't believe that some people are advising lisigp60 to deliver the children to their mother given the concerns which she highlighted.
Reporting to NSPCC may help but they refer on to Social Services as the primary agency for child protection.
Although there is a Court order in place it would appear that concerns have arisen, or changed since the making of the order.
Delivering the children to a potentially dangerous situation is not protecting them, it is at its least very irresponsible.
Stop contact, unless supervised away from mum's partner and report concerns to Social Services and be forceful. The children's safety is paramount and you don't need a solicitor to take the matter back to Court, dad can do this himself.

Solitaire

If there is a court order, and that order has not been changed, the father could legitimately be charged with violating a court order and with parental abduction of his children. It's not his place to take the law into his own hands. If he is arrested and charged, the children could well end up with NO parents. The judge will not look kindly on him violating a court order, even if he feels it's in his children's best interests.

One cannot unilaterally violate a court order based on one's own "feelings".

Thanks all for your advice and suggestions but unfortunately all of it has already been done.

1. I’ve kept a diary of events since the outset of this.

2. I’ve reported to child safety and department of families and women’s services and sought legal advice to the tune of almost $10k.

3. I’ve been told that my son should go to the court and seek an interim hearing to have the order changed. How can he do that? He works full time in a job it took him months to get. He’s already had to take three days off to attend the court mandated family psychologist sessions. This didn’t please his boss one little bit. His job is on the line.

4. It has been reported to the school and both girls have been seen by the school counsellor.

5. We have tried the phone thing. Firstly, there’s no service where they live. It’s remote and isolated. They have only one neighbor who the girls don’t know and it would take them ten minutes to get there. Their mother confiscates the phone as soon as they are there. They say they trust their Mum to keep them safe but are worried she will get hurt doing it.

I know the story is complex and seems quite incredible. But hand on heart this is what has happened and I feel so helpless. I feel it is just another one of those cases that the authorities will hold an investigation into once the damage is done.

Hubby and I are off to see the police. Thanks so much for all your advice and for just listening. It has been most helpful. ?

Agnurse Thanks for the info but I'm afraid what you are saying is wrong. My background is Child protection at a senior level with considerable amount of years spent in Court.
Please don't encourage people to put children at risk of serious harm.
It would also appear that she is probably not a UK resident.

*Agnurse *:
Reasons for Preventing Contact
A parent who wants to stop or limit contact with the other parent usually has to go back to court and ask a judge for an order.

But if the children are in physical or psychological danger (for example, in the case of death threats), a parent can do what is necessary to protect the children. Later, this parent can go to court and ask for an order to prevent the other parent from seeing the children or limiting visits.

A judge will stop contact between a parent and the children if

it is an exceptional situation, or
a drastic decision is necessary to protect the interests of the children.
A judge will carefully evaluate a decision to prevent children from seeing one of their parents. If possible, the judge will opt for something less extreme, such as supervised contact. For example, this would allow parents who are in jailto have some contact with their children, as long as the judge believes this is in the interests of the chi