Girl Guide leader expelled from post.

SueDonim Of course I don't know your friend, I was simply pointing out that the duties of a GG leader are unlikely to involve caring for the person you described. Youth leaders are volunteers and they look after a group of children, they are not able to provide personal care because in doing so they would be unable to supervise the larger group.
I shall ignore your personal remarks.

How dare you accuse me of making up fantasies, Trisher! You have no clue as to my friend's circumstances. And fwiw, she does not and will never have to have male carers, that is clearly written into her care plan.

It's people like you who make life so difficult for parents caring for children such as she has.

SueDonim anyone with such needs would have a carer with them. Really people do make up fantasy situations to try and justify their prejudices. Incidently the carer might be male.
I do think there is a lot of fear and worry on this thread which younger people will not experience as they become more accepting and understanding of gender differences.

It seems that the Scouts Association is still a bit confused, despite stepping back a little from its previous trans policies which were based on advice from Mermaids.

Scouts still advises that trans young people should be able to use the toilets or facilities for the gender they identify as.

So although everyone is aware that Scouts is mixed-sex, most are not aware of quite how mixed the sexes might be.

www.christianconcern.com/our-issues/family-and-sexual-ethics/scouts-scrap-transgender-policy

I don't know if parents of 'transgirls' are making this into a huge issue for GirlGuiding.
Or if GirlGuiding has introduced its trans policies as a result of pressure and, maybe, 'equality training' from transactivists (adults who see this as yet another way to affirm themselves).

I have come to this discussion rather late but one thought (which I don't think has been mentioned) strikes me as relevant.

Given that we are talking about children and young people whose sexual preferences have yet to be set in stone, who should NOT (under the law) be engaging in sexual activity and if transitioning will not yet be fully their new chosen gender -

Why would they and their parents make such a fuss to have them in the Guides, when there is an organisation with identical ethos and similar activities and unisex uniforms which is open to both boys and girls i.e. The Scouts.

I really question the motives of parents who are unnecessarily turning this into a huge issue for the Guides, probably to the detriment of their own child's self esteem. anonymity and vulnerability.

Um, Trisher how do you expect a girl in a wheelchair with cerebral palsy and physical disabilities who wears pads to clean themselves up? Because that's the case with someone I know.

Wrt my previous post, I've already pointed out that the person did request a female nurse beforehand. It's a waste of time and resources to have to rebook.

She had already requested a female nurse, Gonegirl before her appointment, because of the previous sexual assault. That's who she was allocated. Why should she have had to undergo another distressing and threatening experience, then make another appointment, take more time off work and psyche herself her again.

We read often enough that women are not attending their smear tests - why make it even harder?

FarNorth if your GC was ill would you allow a male nurse to attend her?
Even when children have accidents youth leaders do not give "intimate care" a child would be provided with clean clothing but left to wash and clean herself.
A lot of irrelevant stuff on here.
And anyone can refuse a physical examination without giving a reason.

Your friend would have been able to request a different nurse Suedonim.

I think this thread is drifting off into la-la land. Certainly nothing to do with young people who are unhappy with the gender they have been designated.

The 'female' nurse my friend, a previous victim of sexual assault, was assigned for her smear test had a beard, a deep voice and a male physique but the nurse assured my friend they were a woman. The doctors practice had to accept this nurse was the person they claimed to be. I can see that that could also happen in the GG world. As for intimate care, if GG are inclusive and have disabled children in their movement, there could indeed be a need for intimate care.

My friend's experience was doubted by some on GN when I first wrote about it but the truth was proven when the case was reported in the Sunday Times.

In the current climate, who knows.
How manly would a transwoman have to be to not be accepted as a woman?
If Alex shaved his beard off, would that be enough?
(He already wears skirts and make-up)

Well yes, if you think someone with a bushy beard is going to be classed as a man. Stereotyping indeed. Quite rightly.

You really think GirrrlWhatsisfeatures would be accepted as a Girl Guide Captain? Really?! #specsavers

By the way, 'intimate care' was mentioned earlier.
I'm guessing that may be needed if a young girl - Rainbow age, or maybe Brownie - has an 'accident'.
I expect there have to be 2 people there but, even so, I wouldn't be happy for a man claiming to be a woman to do that for my DGD.

Absolutely, MissA.
Gonegirl you are showing some very stereotyped views, there.

Ah yes, but in order to be inclusive, he/she may well get preference over more traditional looking women.

How can you tell what Alex 'obviously' is?

The beard giving it away? ?

Just something about him/her FarNorth tells me he wouldn't get past the vetting stage.

Imho, the word 'gender' should be done away with.

Instead of gender identity, just have identity.
Present yourself however you like, not following the stereotypes expected for one sex or the other.

Physical sex always stays the same.
Identity can be whatever you want.

He is obviously someone who believes himself to be 'gender fluid'.
The Girl Guides would never take him on as a GG leader.

What gives you that idea, Gonegirl?

How can you tell what Alex 'obviously' is?

Are you sure that GirlGuiding would exclude a 'gender-fluid' person and do you think they should?

Alex describes himself as 'a transgender grrl in her forties. (my underlining)
If Alex is gender-fluid, perhaps he could arrange to be she/her whenever required by GirlGuiding?

Ok. Tell me what the point of the photo was. Cos I sure as hell cant see it.

That Guardian article states that cruel treatment of transwomen is misogyny, because it is a result of patriarchy.

I agree it's a result of patriarchy but it is not misogyny - it is transphobia.
The cruel treatment of the transwomen mentioned came about because it was known that they were trans, not because anyone believed they were women and wished to treat them badly because of being women.

Of course, people should not be ill-treated because of being trans.
That doesn't mean they should be believed to have actually changed sex.

Really, Gonegirl, you are setting a record for points being missed.

Why. Not how

I don't see how that photo of 'GrrlAlex' has been posted. It has nothing to do with thread subject. He is obviously someone who believes himself to be 'gender fluid'. The Girl Guides would never take him on as a GG leader. And the young boys in question wouldn't look like that!