Loyalty

Well observed specki4eyes!

Manipulation, coercive control. A standard male technique for keeping women in line. Suggest you withdraw some of your 'services' until he finds his manners.

Hi Smedleyswife my pennorth is that he humiliated you in front of your son and his wife. This isn’t on. This is serious bad behaviour.
I don’t know in front of whom you were supposed to have spoken badly of him? It’s a subtle one but you know it he has overstepped the line.
Be clear in your mind about this and, if you can, try and get it through to him that such behaviour is totally out of order. And that you will agree that you will not publically humiliate the other.
It is behaviour that makes my blood run cold. I have only experienced it vicariously and it was always a very bad sign. It might seem slight but it is unforgivable if it goes from teasing banter to embarrassing put downs. We all know the difference. One is done with love the other is not. More to do with power. He probably feels his power is threatened vis a vis your son. Very difficult and upsetting for you. Good luck in getting through to him and getting an apology best done with him praising you with love in front of your son and his wife.

It’s a classic manoeuvre to deflect the issue away from himself, often just to allow the situation to move on, it never works. I suggest you do move on.. relax and put it behind you both.

Go to marriage therapy.

Hi Smedleyswife I am so sorry to hear your situation. It rings bells for me - I was in a very controlling and manipulative relationship for 25 years, before I finally snapped and ended it. He would twist things so it was against me if ever I said anything against him - well you do it, even if I didn't. It is attacking as a form of defence. I would also ask though why you don't have any other friends? My XH also stopped me from seeing other people - he did it very gradually and seemingly at the time caring about me - he would say things like "you don't want to see soandso because they say this about you" or "you know they upset you" and tell tales about them so that I wouldn't want to see them. I was often discouraged from seeing family as well, and got to the point where I was very isolated. When we split up he also tried to turn a lot of my family against me. Later on I found out he had told friends and family that I didn't want to see them, or had an issue with them. He also used to put me down in other ways - "get your hair cut" or "you look terrible in that" and I eventually realised he didn't want me to be me and he didn't want others to be attracted to me - it was his insecurities that caused that not mine. It took me a long time to see it, and in fact it was only when I was hospitalised for a long time and could finally think for myself that I realised the full extent of what was going on. Day to day it just creeps up on you. I am therefore concerned that your isolation is because of his control or his wishes to control who you see or what you do. I wonder if this issue is just one part of his controlling - that he wants the upper hand by blaming you for being like that. Good luck with it all, it isn't easy and families and relationships are so complicated.

Storm in a teacup imo,sleeping separately makes matters worse and rather churlish.
I suggest moving on and let it pass,you are 60ish for goodness sake not teenagers looking to score points in "he said she said"

Could you not see it as another way. He was protecting you from feeling hurt by your daughters words. Yes it came out during conflict, but unless you have other problems with your relationship with him, is it really worth the aggravation ?

I'm hearing alarm bells: ' We don’t have any friends'.

That's not normal. Please consider discussing the whole situation with someone outside the family (and I don't just mean on Gransnet)

Personally my 1st step would be to ask DD if she thought that you spoke down to him in general and get her perspective, then dependant on her answer would determine my next step. If she says yes, then that’s something for you and DH to talk about. If she says no, then he has lied to you, so you need to look at the bigger picture here, few friends etc and maybe have some counselling to see if you are being manipulated. If he won’t go, then go alone as it sounds like you have low self esteem going on here too. Always remember that your thoughts and feelings are 100% equal to his and you are entitled to consideration and respect too.

To be honest, if something like this can upset you so much, there is either something deeply wrong with your relationship or you are overthinking. If he talks badly to you often whilst in company, then it needs sorting out. But a one-off? The reaction seems somewhat extreme.
Are you really saying that not repeating something hurtful your daughter said about you is keeping a secret from you? Unless he wanted to change your behaviour, what would be the point of telling you?
Does he deflect criticism often with accusations about your behaviour so that you do not concentrate on his faults? If so, that is gaslighting. If not, on a one off basis or rare occasion, he can hardly be labelled as a narcissist . We probably all have narcissistic traits but that is a far cry from being a narcissist. However, on this forum, that diagnosis is often made.

When you're having a row and the other person (who you're still mad at) threatens to leave, you say 'Fine, go ahead, leave!' but you don't really mean it.

To me too it sounds as if your husband answered as he did because he didn't want to admit that he had been in the wrong. Many men would have made a compleletely unjustified remark like that if they were drunk. Had your husband been drinking?

However, there are a couple of other explanations.

What is considered acceptable, unacceptable or rude does differ very much from one family or group of people to another, so your husband could have been hurt by something that you never meant to be hurtful. This has happened between my husband and me more than once and took time to sort out.

You said that your son and DIL were present when your husband spoke so rudely to you. I gather that you quite rightly waited to challenge him until they were gone.

Could you not tell either your son or DIL what you have told us here and ask them to be honest and tell you if they have ever heard you speak unkindly or rudely to your husband?

If he was just lashing out at you, then they will be able to tell you that that is exactly what his remark was. If, on the other hand, you unintentionally have spoken less then nicely to him, you will be able to find out what he meant.

Either way, please do not let this escalate any further. To me, it isn't the kind of thing that should ever have been allowed to result in your neither speaking to each other, or sleeping together, unless of course it is the final straw that has broken the camel's back and you are intending to divorce.

smedleyswife, do you really want a husband who never criticises, who walks on eggshells for fear of upsetting you? How boring! You don't mention what he was rude to you about. Maybe you were due the criticism? It might be that you benefit from being pulled up sometimes. I'd much rather hear the truth than be constantly pandered to!

If I'd have had a wet fish handy it would have gone round his chops. That would have brought him down to earth and made him sit up. This way teaches them that you're not under anyone's thumb and neither will you stand for being humiliated------do it back and shock him.

Phew! Some really extreme advice!
If this is a one off, forgive, forget, maybe have a good chat when you are both in calmer moods.
If this is a regular occurrence or the final straw in a string of unsupportive, undermining behaviours, then maybe counselling is the next step.
Counselling seeks to look at feelings and behaviours from both sides in a calm, non accusatory manner. A chance for both of you to look at what you need from the relationship. A chance to decide if the relationship is worth working on.
No person is perfect or behaves in an ideal way all of the time. We all have our foibles, bad habits, annoying behaviours etc.
The question is, is the relationship worth working on despite all the above?
Sometimes my OH drives me mad, and I know I do the same to him. I love him and he loves me so we work together. We’re two different people who see things from different angles - it’s finding a way to sometimes mesh that’s important. That’s my take.!

One thing that did jump out to me OP is htat you are trying so hard to be there for everyone else.
I doubt you are being respected in return.

Please think about living life for you to enjoy. That doesn't mean being horribly selfish but you sound so alone and there is no-one in your corner.
I think a club or activity just for you would be a good step and make you less dependent emotionally on your family.
I know you mentioned anxiety but I have battled that all my life and I was always told to face my fear and this is what I keep in mind. Don't let nerves hold you back on everything.

I am shocked by Hetty58's post.

She might benefit from being pulled up sometimes! OMG what decade are we living in?
She is a woman and and a human being she deserves respect.
You sounded really mean with that Hetty

Two things ring warning bells for me: one is that you call yourself "Smedleyswife" on here. The other is that you have no friends beyond the family.

* Newtothis* I have never heard such rubbish. I find the kinder I am to all people the kinder they are to me. You must have a very sad life.

I too am shocked by Hetty’s post.

I agree with Miss Adventure it is no big deal, move on and continue to care for your family.

I agree with CanadianGran. I have an anxiety disorder and this is what it is like. Getting panicky and, overthinking and not sleeping and then realising that it wasn't the end of the world. Everyone has an off day occasionally and says things out of turn.
If there is more to it than this, then you have a big decision to make but it is either a unpleasant comment that escalated or you have an underlying problem.
His comment that he is fine if you leave him sounds like a defensive reaction to you saying you were going to leave which would have been just as hurtful to him as his reply was to you.
No one can really tell from the outside but you have to calm yourself down first before you can decide.
It does sound like a relationship when you are not particularly kind to each other so it might be an idea to start from that point and try to have a chat without being defensive.

In my opinion, a lot of men cannot accept criticism. It sounds like he is deflecting. Why couldn't he just have said, "Oh, I'm very sorry I did that" instead of implying you have done the same thing.

There's no need to declare WWIII here! You and your DH need to take a step back, take a deep breath and reach a much needed compromise.

Have a quiet conversation with DH letting him know why you're upset. Going forward, you both need to agree that you will be mindful about how and what you say to each other especially in front of others.
Second: DH needs to know that you are not 'telepathic'. If he's annoyed over something you might have done, how can you tell if he doesn't say anything about it to you? Likewise, you need to tell him why you are hurt and upset with him.
Third: That you both sort your marital issues in private, not fall into hearsay and never allow others to get involved without permission from both of you.

This postis all about the effect the anxiety has on your life.

What did your dh say in front of your relatives?
It is important to know more details because this statement is too ambiguous.

Several red flags
1. You have low self esteem - what is your plan to address it?
2. You had an abusive marriage. Is your dd from that marriage?
3. You have no friends - you don't want friends or unable to make friends?
4. You thought you had the perfect life - i see some denial in this statement
How can you have the perfect life and you mention dh can be controlling?
5. Your dd's relationship is none of your business. It is a source of anxiety for you and you need to let it go. She is an adult.
6. You say you are used for babysiting.
You will feel bad when you are no longer needed.
How does your anxiety affect the kids?
7. Do not ever give ultimatums if you are not willing to follow through.
It makes you look like the boy who cried wolf and when you are serious, nobody will believe you
This applies to very big ultimatums that affect your life- separation is not a trivial thing to throw around

Take thee to therapy. You live in chaos right now. Address the red flags.

I should have added that it's OK to give him a 'pass' but this time around only.
If he continues to be disrespectful and dismissive towards you, he will deserve a swift kick in his proverbial arse....but that will be up to you entirely!