My DD has just turned up on our doorstep...

So your daughter and GS have turned up on your doorstep, obviously very upset, your DD is saying that her OH no longer wants to be with her. Quite frankly, I would be jumping in your car and going to collect her belongings for her!
I don't really understand what your hesitation is - do you believe that the way that your SiL was acting while were together was just for show? My guess is that you had seen what he was like, and chose to ignore it.
You can't understand why your daughter is not the strong woman that you brought her up to be? Believe me, being constantly criticised and run down is like a dripping tap on a bar of soap - it wears away all of your self belief over time, making you turn into half the person you were.
What your daughter needs right now is your love and support in whatever she chooses to do about her marriage. Whether you like it or not, you are involved - this is more than something silly - it may well be the straw that broke the camel's back and for your DD sake I hope it is.
Think of your GS. Do you want him to see the way that his father behaves and to grow up to think that it is the normal way for a man to behave towards a woman ? I certainly wouldn't!

It sounds like you’re doing all the right things already. Be there for your daughter and grandson. That’s all you can do. Let them work it out, otherwise you could find yourself being the bad guy.

Isn’t that mental cruelty constantly criticising someone, that must be very soul destroying for her, and her son hearing her being picked on like that day in day out is not good for either of them. If it was my daughter I’d be telling her what I saw and how I felt I couldn’t sit back and watch her be treated like that. We wouldn’t fall out over it tho as she’d take my views on board, just as I did my mums.

Just consider whether there’s an element of coercive control in their relationship. It is often hidden from the wider family of the victim. A ‘silly argument’ might be the straw that breaks the camel’s back. Listen carefully to your daughter and read between the lines.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ExD1938 You say, "We all know husbands can be controlling at times (or try to be) but its not a reason to end a marriage." Actually, I think it's a very good reason to end a marriage. Nobody should have to put up with constant criticism. That's just plain bullying and if it's clear to see in public, it might well be worse in private. Would anyone want their children to be raised seeing such lack of respect for their mother? I doubt it. Hope it all works out.

What else can you do other than give shelter and comfort to DD and GC. You can't become embroiled in their issues. Sorry but I don't agree about 25 year olds being children. They are adults. SiL does seem very controlling and demeaning. Hope it isn't long until tger is a resolution.

Yennifer

He's very very critical of her, your husband doesn't like it but you think it's silly? If he is happy to be like that in front of you, how bad is it behind closed doors?
^
This with bellls on.

There are “silly rows” and many other reasons couples fall out. Sometimes an ongoing “silly row” causes bad behaviour on one or both sides. So, it could be something or nothing.
On the other hand, it could be an ongoing, serious problem.
I would certainly ignore the advice to leap into instant action!
Rushing round and grabbing all her stuff or encouraging her to leave (or reconcile) are not options.
This could be a life changing decision to make or a gradual reconciliation.
When she’s rested and thinking a bit more clearly, it’s a chance to talk and discuss. Just explain things may help. Otherwise, relationship counselling may help clear the air - together or alone.
All you need to do is be the support. Make it clear that you’re there for her whatever happens - don’t lay blame, encourage discussion and help her make her own choice.
She’s got a problem but no one knows how serious that may be yet. Definitely not a time for knee jerk reactions.

@scentia I don't believe what I'm listening to here, "They just seem so childish and I suppose at 25 they are children." sorry I should explain, I say listen to because, I am BLIND and so, therefore, I must use assistive technology in order to use the computer so it reads out loud to me.
"at 25 they are children" well if she's still a kid at 25 that's YOUR fault. I understand she has a son of her own is that responsible?
Sorry if this is not the answer you wanted but some folk have REAL problems.
Supposing by YOU writing this `attention-seeking` drivel you have made the situation worse? because sure as eggs are eggs someone (his friends and family) has seen this and told him about it.
Bottom line pet "did the world need to know about this? Or is this a private matter?`

I think there are probably issues going way beyond a "silly" argument and it is probably the proverbial straw. Sometimes a Mum's shoulder is the only thing that helps and so here you are. Just be comforting without judgement and, if it is really over, get her to seek legal advice.
My SIL recently talked to me about leaving my daughter. Whilst I understand many of the problems faced by him (he ain't perfect either) I tried to be supportive but had to point out to him that, when push came to shove, I would have to support my daughter but I would encourage her to be fair and to put the children first before her angst about him. He talked to my son yesterday and he repeated what I'd said so I hope he will remember that if it comes to a break up. He wants custody of the children so I can see it being a free for all and I am not sure I can bear it.

She may need space to work out what she wants to do... all you can do is be there for her but dont offer advice as they have to work it out.
Suggest that you offer to look after GS so they can actially meet up and talk things through

Be there for your daughter but don't interfere or you'll end up being the bad person .

I am wondering right now why you are so sure that "everything will be sorted" ? Your SIL has apparently told his wife he no longer wants to be with her. What does she want?

Ask her, that is after all the first priority.

I don't think you have done harm by saying that you were surprised how critical he was when you stayed with him.

Not knowing why your SIL says he doesn't want her any more, none of us can really advise.

One question ....why has your daughter and child moved out. If he doesn’t want to be with her anymore surely it’s for him to go back to his family. Your grandchild needs the stability of their own home.Have a word with her...she needs to know her rights in the break-up.

I'm going through something similar but my dd is 20 and they all living with me, so following for advice because I'm struggling to stay out of it too xx

Support her in any way you can. Yes it would be much better if he left the house, but you do not know what she has been putting up with. There will be something behind it, she is obviously knackered, when she is rested you can find her help, woman's aid perhaps if there is abuse of any kind, a solicitor to find out her rights and get general advice. If she has changed from being a strong woman something has happened for sure. Seeing a solicitor does not mean that she has to instigate divorce proceedings but helps her assess her options. If he is abusive do not at all suggest at she stays with him, encourage her to speak to women's aid. If you need to help her get things get important papers, passports, birth certificates, bank documents, any personal valuables such as jewellery, photos, laptops etc. The fact that he is sitting put is v concerning
Limit what is said about the situation in front of the grandchild, who will already be unsettled.
If you have to say something say it along the lines of I've noticed that he did this, that, has said this, said that.

Just be there for her to give her support and know there is always someone there for her. Also if she wants to talk try to ask her what she wants. Listen to her rather than advise because you don't want her to stop coming to you which she might if you advise something she doesn't like or she thinks you are being too critical. Whatever decison she makes has to be hers and you need to make her confident enough to make the right decision or to come to you if she needs it.
Having said that it must be hard. He sounds terrible and if it were me I am sure I would have trouble biting my tongue.

I agree with jaylucy if I saw my daughter constantly being criticised and having the stuffing knocked out of her I’d be around there in a shot packing up HIS belongings and telling him exactly what it is to be a ‘man’ not a mouse who has to belittle a woman to that extent she has had to uproot herself and small son and go back home, especially as you and your DH have seen it for yourself! No woman should ever have to put up with being constantly bullied by anyone least of all her husband. It sounds to me like he has a problem, is he having an affair? Often men do this to their partner or wife if they are carrying on with someone, for some unknown reason it makes them feel better to pick on the little woman back home whilst trying to make their mind up who they want!
If my husband told me he didn’t want me anymore he would be shown the front door faster than his legs could carry him I’m afraid. At 25 your DD still has plenty of time to find a nice caring husband who does treat her well and doesn’t criticise her.

Paperbackwriter yes, I didn't put that very well did I?

I do wonder why its not HIM who has moved out? But in leaving she has left herself a small chance to moving back hasn't she so she's in a position of power - whereas if she'd kicked him out she'd have no control over whether or not he returned.
I feel that deep down she's hoping he'll come to his senses and change his behaviour. Because it IS possible to love a bully, you hope he'll change (but he won't).
Mum is doing the right thing in giving her DD and child shelter and emotional help whilst avoiding taking sides. I hope she is strong enough to not let it upset her too much. it must be devastating for her.
Somehow I doubt he will change. Leopards and spots etc????

Your Sil doesn’t want to be with your DD anymore and she has turned up on your doorstep with her child. Hmm. Why hasn’t he left! You say he is very critical of your DD and she lets him do it. She seems like a different person and not the strong person she used to be. Well sounds to me like a controller and a bully, you say they are children. Nope a 25 year old should not be classed as a child, they are adults! Their DS is a child! I’m glad she has somewhere safe to go away from him.. just be there for her to give support but ultimately she has to sort this herself. I hope she can get this situation sorted soon especially when a young child involved

Next time she asks what you think, turn it back and ask how she feels about it.

Definitely don’t interfere, just be there for your daughter and, if necessary, pick up the pieces afterwards.

Hopefully she just needs a little respite to sort everything out.

Of course you should provide a safe haven where she knows she will be always be welcome. Right now, she needs a few hugs and some much needed space to sort out her problems....that's what family is for.

Above all, be a very supportive but impartial bystander. Easier said than done, (been there), but that's all you can do.

Scentia. I am so sorry. This is a terrible situation for you to be in. I do agree with everyone who says you are right not to get involved but to be there for your daughter so she has a safe place and person to whom to turn.

Unfortunately we do not know exactly what goes on in a home and a relationship. I hid my extreme distress from my parents at the way my husband treated me for many years. I feel inclined to say that your daughter will get nowhere while she feels she is "having to defend herself all the time".
Criticism is the first of John Gottman’s famous 'Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse', which predict divorce with more than 90% accuracy.
My advice to your daughter, from experience and from giving Counselling would be to stop being on the defensive. Realise he is always criticising, realise that he gets some kind of 'kick' out of putting her down. If possible she would benefit from not feeling like the victim and simply by replying calmly, "I'm sorry that's your view. You may be right, you may be wrong." and do not say anything else. Just repeat those words if necessary.

You may need to try and help your daughter to feel strong and that she is not the helpless person she feels she is at the moment. He has worn her down with constant criticism. Your words "she seems like a different person than the strong young woman we raised." triggered alarm bells in me. You have seen the change in her. She has lost self-esteem and has been crushed. Her extreme change is not due to mere disagreements and criticisms, he is attacking her on a very deep level, undermining her very self-belief, her inner strength. This happens when a person is systematically bullied in a certain way, repeatedly not allowed to be themselves, derided, denounced, humiliated, made to feel they cannot do anything properly. They try harder and harder to please and all the time it is thrown back in their face, sneeringly and cruelly. All in the privacy of the home. In public he remains "That nice man". I suspect this is the case for your daughter. I am all the more convinced because you feel that regarding the issue that caused her to leave, "it is a row about something so silly". It is always "something so silly" to anyone who does not know what these cruel people are like and the issues they pick on. Trying to explain what it is like being with them is so difficult! You say "Nothing I do is right for him." and people say "Then why does he stay with you/you with him?" but it isn't possible to get away and he stays because he likes tormenting you, it is his favourite hobby, the driving force of his life, to see you squirm, try to explain, try to please him, try to put it right... to see your fear.

It would be wise to get legal advice since he has effectively driven her from her rightful home. It is time for your daughter to learn where she stands and to feel in control of her own life and that of her son. She needs to recognise she has rights and that those rights begin with not being subjected to an atmosphere of constant criticism in her own home.

As her mother, you will be feeling so upset for her and often so helpless, Scentia, but do not under estimate the importance of your quietly solid supportive role at this crucial time in your daughter's life. Just by being there, as calm as you can be, listening, soothing, supporting, strengthening her. Your DH has recognised how critical this man is for a long time. The criticisms will not stop, believe me, he enjoys them, dishing out the put-downs makes him feel powerful. I lived with it for 23 years. It wears you down so much that you have no life left in you, you become a hollow ghost with no comparison to the person you used to be.
I would like your daughter to get objective professional help. It is impossible to try and manage these things yourself, when you are so worn out and distraught you cannot see the wood for the trees. She needs to learn about abuse and understand what is actually going on, not what he says is going on. She would do well to see her GP. There are websites giving advice about critical and controlling men and how to cope. I found a few:
this one has a Christian perspective but is useful for non Christians too: www1.cbn.com/marriage/living-with-a-critical-control-freak
When I typed in "Critical Husband" it did not reflect one who drove his wife to leave the marital home. I think your SiL is more of a Controlling and Critical man, the Coercive type, a nastier person perhaps. Saying he doesn't want to be with her any more but letting her be the one to move out is very selfish. It suggests that he may be controlling and coercive. What are the signs?
Katie Ghosh, chief executive of Women's Aid describes it like this: " (It is) If your partner is constantly chipping away at your self-esteem and rubbishing you." and Professor Evan Stark compares it to being taken hostage: "The victim becomes captive in an unreal world created by the abuser, entrapped in a world of confusion, contradiction and fear." In case it is relevant see www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-46347957

I am so very sorry about this situation. Do not get involved with any nit-picking details of the arguments and encourage your daughter to let those details drop however niggling and unfair they may be. Just keep suggesting she refuses to argue or discuss with him the details of whatever he is criticising. Try and find that blanket reply and use it over and again in a dull neutral voice, such as "I hear you, maybe that is so, maybe not." Regarding ending the marriage, it needs Solicitors to handle that.

Sorry I have taken up so much space.
I do care very much about this kind of situation. I feel how distressing it is for you. I pray that a good outcome may be found and that in a few months time your daughter is living with her son happily and has returned to the happy, strong person she truly is. With love Elle x