Coming back to the UK after 45 years living abroad.

I wasn't talking about black people GagaJo, I was simply saying that I'd help my family.

Sorry EV, that post was in response to one by the OP. I was watching GS at the same time as typing and hadn't clicked send.

And, I only asked what if....

If you live in a country where your race is privileged over another, you benefit even if you don't have racist views yourself. This point has been made by the Black Lives Matter movement.

You could have been the nicest white person in apartheid South Africa but you benefitted by living in a country built on cheap black labour. And people were not innocents fifty years ago, with no concept of right and wrong. How could you live under apartheid and not know that black people were paid less, had inferior education, inferior health care, inferior housing, less opportunities, separation from their families, restricted freedom and were treated without respect? Or that those who protested were arrested, beaten, tortured or killed? Knowing these things, you knew you were living in an immoral society and closed your eyes to it, or you believed that it was right for whites to rule blacks, or you left or you became a freedom fighter.

To be honest, I think that people who emigrated to apartheid South Africa are more morally culpable than those born there. They saw, from outside, what was happening and they went to join in.

GagaJo

Callistemon, anyone that benefitted from apartheid was racist.

I feel as if I've entered a parallel universe on this thread! Did any of you watch the news during the overthrow of apartheid? Did you support the fight of Nelson Mandela?

anyone that benefited from apartheid was a racist
Even those who educated black pupils?

Simplistic and very prejudiced, Gagajo!

Ps I think you know very little about what happened in Zimbabwe.

Most of us supported Mandela; we decided not to live in SA when we could have done. I remember meeting Desmond Tutu when I was very young too; our friend was at Cambridge with him.
Most of us may know far more about this than you may realise.

GagaJo

Callistemon, anyone that benefitted from apartheid was racist.

I feel as if I've entered a parallel universe on this thread! Did any of you watch the news during the overthrow of apartheid? Did you support the fight of Nelson Mandela?

You only know what you post from second-hand, Gagajo

How do you know that those about whom we post were not opposed to apartheid? Did their best to educate the population so that one day they could run their own country as they wished?

How do you know that those who were born under apartheid in fact hated the fact that, walking along the street, a black person would have to step into the road to allow a white person to pass?
I know that some white people hated this but it was law.

Good reasonable post callistemon

Thanks kittylester
I do know this as facts from people I know (or knew) well.

As if we didnt know about Nelson Mandela!!! And all that went on in SA.

Anyone who didn't is either too young or had their head in the sand.

Callistemon

Thanks kittylester
I do know this as facts from people I know (or knew) well.

As I said, Callistemon. My black SA student spoke several times about hers and her families experiences. Individually, there will of course have been white people who were supportive of the fight, who were not racist. But ultimately, whites were not wanted. Giving SA students a British colonial education. Employing maids, nannies, a house boy... Living in areas where blacks were banned other than for work. What else is that if not white privilege?

As Bluecoat said, it is one thing to have been born into it, but to go as an adult, into a violent murderous regime as an automatic member of the ruling class just because of your skin colour...

It isn't ok to just sit and accept this stuff. We have to say, 'No. This was wrong.' Because otherwise we capitulate.

My SA student was really upset at the end of term. I teach international literature. A range of nationalities and ethnicities (not all black, before you leap to conclusions - Margaret Atwood is my favourite). My placement at the school was a 6 month contract. The new teacher is white SA. My poor student is devastated. Not only are all the new teachers texts white authors, she's worried about covert racism. So no, it isn't over for black SA. The wounds are very deep.

I speak of Zimbabwe, actually.
It became a beacon of democracy, of course, when Mugabe took over.

You knew one student?
So presumably you are more of an authority than me.

I'm not setting myself up as an authority. You may if you wish.

This is my main point: It isn't ok to just sit and accept this stuff. We have to say, 'No. This was wrong.' Because otherwise we capitulate.

We were colonials. Some are still acting as if they are. It is wrong.

I know.

Many of the white people I knew were very anti-apartheid.
However, I have encountered some whose opinions shocked me.

Seems a bit unfair to come back to use the NHS which they have not paid for what did they do with all the money they earned in SA over the last 45 years

This is all very Biblical. May I suggest a re-reading of the parable of the Prodigal Son: Luke chapter 15, verses 11 - 32.

Age UK have some really informative factsheets which cover everything from health through benefits, housing, pensions etc. Please read them and contact them with any questions, circumstances can vary hugely and have huge impacts on rights.

www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/money-legal/benefits-entitlements/returning-to-the-uk-after-living-abroad-heading/

------> I had no time for Mandela.

Icanhandthemback, while it’s true that you are supposed to renounce any other nationality if you take US citizenship, it’s different in practice. A sister who’s lived in the US since her early 20s and was married to an American (later widowed) took out US citizenship after several decades there, and even at the ceremony the MC said he knew that many would be hanging on to their old passports.

Though in fact even if there was a ceremonial burning of your British passport, you could still apply for another - it wouldn’t destroy your right to citizenship.

The U.K. is a very different place from 45 years ago though isn’t it?
I think the culture shock including absence of friends who may have died, moved to other areas or with whom one has just lost contact would take a lot to overcome especially in one’s later years. I know BIL really doesn’t cope but tries to ignore the aspects which he doesn’t like.
Ex-pats can get caught in an uncomfortable limbo and I don’t envy them.

Having responded to the OP with information, now I will put something TRUE f o reward to those who believe that OP 'has a cheek thinking they can get help......'

10 years ago, I worked in charitable housing for older people. The LA contacted me to ask that I could help. The story......

Mrs X moved to Rhodesia as was in 50's as a missionary with Mr X, encouraged by British govt. Lived there for nearly 50yrs in rural areas providing medical care (husband), & teaching Mrs X, along with other missionary staff as & when. Rhodesia was their adopted home, they had their children there, because of their remote location, politics and change pretty much passed them by and they were adopted by the local residents.

Until everything changed. In 2006, a group of men arrived in the settlement, the locals were terrified and hid the British couple (now in their early 80's), & a visiting nurse (58 yrs old), were dragged out of their home. The husband was tied to a pole and forced to watch as several men raped his wife and the visiting nurse. When both women lost consciousness, Mr X was murdered.

The nurse subsequently died but Mrs X survived and returned to UK. She had nothing, just the memories both good and bad. She was entitled to nothing as a 'foreigner', hence the LA approach to us. We rehoused her and arranged for grants to cover living costs.

Her case was perhaps extreme, but she was one of many to whom the Government had made promises having encouraged them to moved abroad in the first place.

No entitlements? Maybe but these people were not alone. I believe that this forgotten generation should be helped. There are plenty of residents who have never paid a penny of tax or ni contributions and they get help. All British passport holders should be entitled to the same help when residing in Britain.

Lovely post daftbag, thank you.

DD2 is married to a white Zimbabwean so I can relate what happened to his relatives to that story.

EllanVannin

----------> I had no time for Mandela.

Is this a quote, or is it what you believe EV?

Because if it is what you believe, I would say that it isn't for white people OR non SA to say whether he was good or bad. He was revered by black SA's. That is the important thing.

daftbag
What a terrible story. All those years providing care to other people, and then that terrible ending.

Countless Afrikaans-speaking farmers have been robbed, looted, burned and raped in the recent past. Going a similar way to Zim.