Kids back to school

Very good suggestions OP. We will be wearing masks in the car bringing GC back from school. Your point about hand sanitiser before even getting into car shows you understand barrier ‘nursing’.

Aepgirl

The schools will be well-organised, and will give all necessary information. Just follow the 'instructions' and all will be fine.

Your optimism and faith may sadly be misplaced.

I'm not sure that "all will be fine" in schools because proper social distancing won't be possible. Schools will, however, be safer than supermarkets for example because they will see the same pupil footfall every day rather than hundreds of random customers. Also pupils, by their very nature, should be more ready to comply with and follow the rules laid down by their teachers.
There will be cases in schools, that is inevitable. I just hope the schools will jump on it immediately and limit the damage by removing all those involved.

My two have been back in school for two weeks. During lockdown I saw them only twice with the garden path between us.
Last week, DD had to spend 3 days in hospital so the children stayed with me (as I am part of their bubble).
On Sunday they (and mum) stayed over again as mum had early hospital appointment and I live much closer to the hospital. All reasonable precautions were in place - separate towels/constant cleaning etc.
Today GD was sent home with a temp of 39.2 (along with asymptomatic brother). DD has spent the day trying to sort access to testing but we have been told that we all face 14 days self-isolation.
Hoping for a negative test asap!

Has anyone been able to establish whether or not any school staff have died having caught Coronavirus from a pupil? Hopefully the answer will be no.

????for you and yours mcem.

Thanks maddy.
I'll report back.

Ellianne

I'm not sure that "all will be fine" in schools because proper social distancing won't be possible. Schools will, however, be safer than supermarkets for example because they will see the same pupil footfall every day rather than hundreds of random customers. Also pupils, by their very nature, should be more ready to comply with and follow the rules laid down by their teachers.
There will be cases in schools, that is inevitable. I just hope the schools will jump on it immediately and limit the damage by removing all those involved.

That's not true. A secondary school teacher is likely to be in contact with 150 pupils a day with no perspex screen between them.

The pupils themselves will, as far as possible, be staying in class groups of 30 pupils for five hours a day. Many classrooms are too small for social distancing of one metre (never mind two metres, which is the recommended distance without some form of PPE) and many are poorly ventilated with windows which don't open.

It's known that the two main factors which affect transmission are distancing and length of time in contact with an infected person. If you actually wanted to dream up ideal conditions for transmission, it would be difficult to think of anything more ideal than a secondary school classroom.

It doesn't matter how well-behaved the pupils are. If the classrooms aren't big enough and the pupils have to sit too close together for hours on end, it's inevitable there will be transmission and infection will be passed on to siblings and other family members and parents' colleagues, etc etc.

How can schools "jump on it quickly" if many pupils are asymptomatic and it's difficult to get testing?

The only solution is to minimise transmission in the first place, which it's why it would be sensible to have some kind of rota system, so class sizes could be smaller. The government knows that very well, which is why it's investing in the development of online resources for blended learning.

If, after a few weeks of a rota system, there is very little increase in transmission, return to full classes could be attempted, rather than using pupils, staff and vulnerable family members as guinea pigs and only reacting when an unacceptable number of deaths have occurred (whatever an "unacceptable" number is).

A secondary school teacher is likely to be in contact with 150 pupils a day with no perspex screen between them.
Maybe, but at least those 150 won't have been down the pub the previous evening or attending a rave unlike random supermarket shoppers!

maddyone

Has anyone been able to establish whether or not any school staff have died having caught Coronavirus from a pupil? Hopefully the answer will be no.

My daughter caught COVID-19 from a pupil and passed it on to her very fit 46 year old husband, also a teacher. He was in intensive care for a week. So yes, of course teachers catch Covid-19 from pupils.

Why wouldn’t they? They don’t have an immunity pass. And some will have mild symptoms, some worse, some will end up in hospital and some will die. Just like some shop assistants, taxi drivers, doctors, nurses and residents of care home.

Anything we can do to protect and support these essential workers we should do. Wearing masks in certain areas in schools makes sense.

We stopped the usual child care day for our four under six year olds in March. We only recently began to meet up with them for walks, parks, gardens. Now they're all going back to school I feel torn. I want to help,as all four parents are back at work. Work and school means the families are exposed to many people in the course of a day.

How can schools "jump on it quickly" if many pupils are asymptomatic?
Yes, and that will be the biggest problem.
But once a case is suspected in school, I'm guessing tests will be made readily available. In my experience the mention of the word "school" or "child" to the various authorities sends it to the top of the list and hopefully everyone will be being extra vigilant. It will need team effort for sure, but schools are good at that.
The next week or two will be the telling time because we have the bank holiday (and the illegal raves) to get through first. Once the outfall from those events is known and dealt with, then we can more easily move on to assess the figures resulting from the return to school.
All the way along, this whole thing has been a case of taking one step at a time. It is now the turn of schools.

There have been a number of cases reported in Scottish schools, but most have been classed as community based.

However, now that children are back at school, the Track and Trace system has been swamped by anxious parents.
This has meant that health care workers have been unable to access tests.
On the BBC news last night, one care worker in Glasgow was asked to go to Belfast for a test!!!
It will only get worse, as the cold and flu season starts.

Yes Marydoll, anxious parents (and teachers) now entering the mix will put undoubted pressure on the system. We can't take chances where children are concerned.

I received a text from NHS Greater Glasgow, which urged parents to be mindful of the pressure on the Track and Trace system. Only the person who is unwell should be seeking a test and the rest of the family has to self isolate until the results are known.

It appears that parents are demanding tests for the whole family, despite only the child experiencing a cough or cold.

Ellianne Maybe, but at least those 150 won't have been down the pub the previous evening or attending a rave unlike random supermarket shoppers!
You have no idea, and neither do the teachers, where the 15-18 year olds (and even some of the younger children) have spent their evenings or weekends. You are relying on a group of people who are at the time of life when they take more risks, believe they are immortal and want to impress their friends. Many of them drink, some take drugs, there are sensible teenagers but certainly some are not and teachers just have to deal with all of them.

Ellianne

^How can schools "jump on it quickly" if many pupils are asymptomatic?^
Yes, and that will be the biggest problem.
But once a case is suspected in school, I'm guessing tests will be made readily available. In my experience the mention of the word "school" or "child" to the various authorities sends it to the top of the list and hopefully everyone will be being extra vigilant. It will need team effort for sure, but schools are good at that.
The next week or two will be the telling time because we have the bank holiday (and the illegal raves) to get through first. Once the outfall from those events is known and dealt with, then we can more easily move on to assess the figures resulting from the return to school.
All the way along, this whole thing has been a case of taking one step at a time. It is now the turn of schools.

Exactly what experience do you have of the way any authorities are reacting to Covid-19? Do you even know who those authorities would be?

Ellianne

^A secondary school teacher is likely to be in contact with 150 pupils a day with no perspex screen between them.^
Maybe, but at least those 150 won't have been down the pub the previous evening or attending a rave unlike random supermarket shoppers!

They could very well have been anywhere to become infected! As could their parents!

The riskiest places to be infected in the UK are currently education/childcare settings and certain workplaces, such as food processing plants.

In a large secondary school, the chances are that at least one person (pupil or member of staff) will be infected at any one time. Whether the infection is transmitted depends on social distancing (impossible), mask wearing, good hygiene and luck. If the person is asymptomatic, it's likely many more will be infected.

Ellianne

^A secondary school teacher is likely to be in contact with 150 pupils a day with no perspex screen between them.^
Maybe, but at least those 150 won't have been down the pub the previous evening or attending a rave unlike random supermarket shoppers!

Not "maybe"! On average, a secondary school teacher has 30 pupils in a class and teaches five classes a day.

I have some experience here in our local area.

Nurseries are being asked every day to provide numbers of what children are off and why? In the local primary schools, a child displaying any symptoms is sent home.
The parents have been informed by email and letter of what the procedures are in place if there are any cases in the school.

The dismissal times are staggered and cones laid out for social distancing for picking up the infant stage children. Parents are asked to stand in the same spot every day, so that children know exactly where their parent is waiting.
Parents must also wear masks.

However, as in other areas in society, there will always be those who don't comply.

growstuff

Ellianne

A secondary school teacher is likely to be in contact with 150 pupils a day with no perspex screen between them.
Maybe, but at least those 150 won't have been down the pub the previous evening or attending a rave unlike random supermarket shoppers!

Not "maybe"! On average, a secondary school teacher has 30 pupils in a class and teaches five classes a day.

What if they have to do lunchtime supervision, monitoring school buses at hometime etc? That adds more children into the mix.
I know what our local secondary school is like at dismissal time.

I do not envy anyone who has to manage all this.

I feel sorry for the teachers

What will they do when students refuse to comply?

Exactly Marydoll. In normal times, my local secondary school has about 30 school buses. They take up a whole car park and the pupils (about 1500) have to line up and wait for them. It has to be very well organised even without Covid.

Social distancing on buses has meant the school has tried to book more buses, but there just aren't any more available.

Parents have been asked to transport their children to and from school, but I have no idea where they'll park. The town is usually at a standstill during school opening and closing time at the best of times.

It is physically impossible for the number of people involved to maintain a social distance of one metre. There are over 8 million young people nationally who are going to be in the worst environment possible for transmitting infection. How many people are allowed in a supermarket at any one time?

All I do know is that I am going to put all of those thoughts out of my mind and will continue to exercise the same caution as the OP with my
school aged grandchildren
I also trust that the school I work in will be ready to act.

Oh dear, always been the 'rule' (even when I was a child - a very long time ago), for my children and then for my g.children - that on arriving home they changed out of school uniform into normal clothes. Originally, this was to protect the expensive uniform clothing.
I did it (back in early 1050's at Grammar school ) probably for nearly a term......my children (and I was at home to 'nag' them did it for about half a term. My g.children none seem to have managed more than a week!!!
Be interesting to see how long they will do so now......
My SiL was Shielding, and is going back into semi=shielding when his children and wife return to school. He has put down this rule of change clothes AND shower on returning home - rest of family almost at the point of taking bets as to how long it will happen.