People who menstruate

I'm not going to force a transwoman into a male space or a trans man into a female space either so if they end up with no space to use as a result that's discrimination. I ask that the discrimination be removed where possible that's all.

And if there are no individual changing rooms? And you're a 15 year old girl, stripping down to your underwear and the "woman" standing next to you is actually a man? What then?

But you would force women who through trauma or religion cant share spaces with men into where exactly. That's discrimination.

I ask that the discrimination be removed where possible that's all.

But it's vulnerable cis women who are being discriminated against. How would you deal with that?

Galaxy again, where have I said that?

I think this is a bit pointless to be honest with you if words and ideas are going to be assumed of me. That's not open honest discussion.

I appreciate the opportunity to think about it all though and I am sure that a better mind than mine will come up with safeguarding techniques to protect all groups and individuals without discrimination. As they have already for many other issues.

In 2017 -18 there were 134 sexual assaults in changing rooms ( swimming pools, changing rooms etc) of those assaults 120 were in unisex facilitiess and 14 were in single sex provision.

Chewbacca the statement about women's refuges is untrue. People who work in women's refuges stated to the parliamentary committee that they were satisfied that their risk assessment procedures would ensure that anyone who posed a threat to women in refuges would be excluded and that includes women who beat up other women.
Transwomen have been in the spaces you define as women's spaces for years and years, you just didn't know they were there. Jan Morris began living as a woman in 1964 and didn't have surgery until 1972, so for 8years she used the women's changing rooms and loos. Just because you now know they are there doesn't mean they suddenly become a threat.

If you say that men can enter womens spaces then by doing that you discriminate against the women I have mentioned. They cant use those facilities so where do they go. When I say you I dont mean you as an individual I mean those who say men can be in womens spaces. It's not a personal statement.

I am sure that a better mind than mine will come up with safeguarding techniques to protect all groups and individuals without discrimination

Not if the changes to the Gender Recognition Act are ratified it won't. The imbalances will, once again, disproportionately affect women.

Womens refuges wont receive funding unless they say that trisher, the women who use the services are saying it very clearly but their views count for little, in private prison officers, those who work in refuges are raising serious concerns. The refuge in Canada that is for women only , is under constant threat, it has been the subject of threats and stripped of funding, you cant expect any one to express their feelings about this when to do so would mean they would lose their job or in many cases be threatened by violence.

They are there already Galaxy what is the point of a law that is unenforceable? how will you stop a trans women from entering a woman only space? Lift her skirt? There are many women who will be very offended if you ask them to do that simply because they don't look girly enough. It is no use offering protection that simply isn't workable.

Galaxy I'm sorry you feel so negatively about the women who work in refuges they were asked about their experiences. You seem to think they would willingly put women at risk I prefer to believe they actually know what they are doing and they will and do protect vulnerable women.

We do it by providing unisex and single sex spaces. Most laws are unenforceable to some extent. We have laws against drink driving but still many people drink drive and are never caught, we dont abandon that law because of that. We make it a cultural norm that when women say no that no is respected, that their boundaries are respected. Of course some people will abuse that trust we dont stop trying to maintain boundaries just because that happens.

Chewbacca the statement about women's refuges is untrue.

Mark/Melissa Addis, a violent male who identifies as a trans woman, was convicted of putting a person in fear of violence by harassment at Snaresbrook Crown Court in 2014. At some point during incarceration or on release from prison, Addis began identifying as transgender while living in Stonewall Housing Association’s LGBTQ Project for homeless lesbian, bisexual, gay or transgender people. Despite knowing of Addis’ history of domestic violence towards a female partner, the Stonewall project made a referral to the East London Women’s Project (ELWP) run by St Mungo’s, the homelessness charity. The policy of allowing transgender women into the female-only hostel apparently started in 2016 and was driven by a man named Simon Hughes, St Mungo’s regional director for East London.
A staff member complained about Addis’ behaviour (shouting, crying, threatening violence against other clients in front of frightened, vulnerable women) and about the policy of allowing transgender women into ELWP, but their complaints were ‘shut down’ by senior management.

I dont feel negatively about women who work in refuges, I think that people who are threatened will find it very difficult to speak out, I think there are many brave women who are beginning to do that. I think the women in the Vancouver rape crisis centre are extraordinarily brave. Braver than me.

So, if you prefer to believe they actually know what they are doing and they will and do protect vulnerable women., it would appear that they are being shouted down by male managers of the refuges. Who'd have thought it?

Transwomen have been in the spaces you define as women's spaces for years and years, you just didn't know they were there
We know. we've always known, but politeness and female socialisation has prevented us from speaking out.That's now ended.
You go on to mention Jan Morris living as a woman, how exactly did he do this?
Did he take full responsibility for his children. did he do all the housework? Did he take time off work when his children were unwell? Did he stay at home while his wife worked and socialised with friends? . Did he do the school run every day? , did he attend every parents evening? Did he cook all meals for the family? Did his natal wife support the household on her earnings?
Or did he wear women's clothing every day? Living as a woman is more than putting on female clothes.
No male person can live as a woman. Just as no female person can live as a man.
Human beings cannot change sex. Ever.

Katie Dolatowski, a violent male who identifies as a trans woman, was convicted of voyeurism and sexual assault at Kirkcaldy Sheriff Court in August 2018. Dolatowski, who was 17 at the time, had attacked two young girls in supermarket toilets in Dumfermline and Kirkcaldy.

How does one live as a woman, what on earth does that mean. Again this is not the fault of transwomen, they were sold this nonsense by deeply sexist people in the medical profession.

I have never understood why you have to pay for sanitry towels or tampons. I must have spent a small fortune over the years on these! They should be free I have always thought this. It is a natural woman thing yet it goes on and on. I hate the ads as well it makes me cringe when they say it helps with the flow etc and make sure you put it right in ugh!!! Such a personal thing in your face. And dont get me started on the other pads that help when you have a little wee come out. Some things dont have to be advertised.

And so another company, who specialises in the needs of a particular biological sex, women, jumps on the band wagon.

My issue with this cult of transgenderism is the dismissal of women as a biological sex. This is particularity seen in left leaning political groups. In an effort to show their inclusive credentials, most political parties are tying themselves in knots to dismiss biological sex and embrace gender inclusivity. Any question, no matter how genuine and serious is dismissed as transphobic. This point of view has quickly spread into public institutions, education etc.,no one wants to be seen on the wrong side of the argument and so have rushed headlong into blind acceptance. Most of the media has jumped head first into this. And also retail, spotting a trend.

But blind acceptance that trans women are women, and if you think otherwise you are a bigot,has dismissed the legitimate questions and concerns of over half the planet. The wants and desires of a miniscule section of the population have been elevated to a position of great importance. Why worry about domestic violence, medical needs, sex trafficking, work place equality, female infanticide, FGM and the rest of the package that being female entails when we can focus on the feelings and desires of a tiny group of biological men.

If biology becomes irrelevant, what happens to biological women? I don't want people who struggle with their gender identity to be ignored, but I do want the implications of this headlong rush to minimise biology to be debated and examined. Women should not be silenced or crushed.

I wonder i they were just clarifying that these reusable pads are not for those who have a continence problem. I know some ladies use ST instead of something like Tena pads if they have a small issue. Maybe these would not be effective. Just a thought.

Good post petunia

The funding for women's refuges has been devastated by austerity. Local authorities have cut funding the charities that have for many years, supported local authority funding. One local example is the closure of contact centre which provided safe, supervised contact between non residential parents, whose history meant unsupervised contact wasn't at that point appropriate. A group for men who had histories of domestic abuse -closed.
Our women's refuge is still going thankfully. Chewbacca has posted some information about the known offences committed by men who have self ID'd as female. Of course the prison service, for example, has safeguarding responsibilities. In the real world, prisons are over crowded, dangerous places. Yes, sex offenders are often housed under Rule 43 but they don't all want to be so segregated. We can all dream about ideal worlds and indeed do what we can to work towards that. Meanwhile, we make the best we can of our far from ideal world. That should never mean women exposing other women to harm.

It should not expose anyone to harm. Whatever their gender and however they choose to identify.
Suppose you have a 22 year old trans woman. She has been livng and dressing as a woman since she was 15 and was thrown out of her home by her parents because of this. She is waiting for surgery but she has a drug problem and she is arrested and charged with using and dealing. The police oppose bail because she is homeless. Do you put her in a women's prison because she poses no danger, or do you put her in a mens prison because she hasn't had surgery? She will undoubtedly be raped and brutalised in the men's prison.