People who menstruate

The point is that there are people who do not choose to call themselves women but who menstruate. Now are some insisting that they have to be called women?
No, no-one is insisting people who have transitioned F to M have to be called women. No-one has said that at all.

Late to the party but I’d say much the same as Suziewoozie, Farnorth, etc have eloquently said.

If we cannot utter the word ‘woman‘, how can women have the protected status they currently have in the law? How can you have sex discrimination laws if you cannot define what a women is.

Btw, if a new proposed bill becomes law in Scotland, JK Rowling could well end up in prison for her views on ‘people who menstruate’. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-53580326

A hairdressing salon has been taken to task when advertising for a new member for their team.

Apparently the advertisement was discriminatory for using the word happy.
It discriminated against people who are not happy.

I saw that today as well Callistemon.

no-one is insisting people who have transitioned F to M have to be called women.

Not on this thread, but in real life this is definitely being said by activists for 'trans rights'.

No, no-one is insisting people who have transitioned F to M have to be called women. No-one has said that at all.

The organisation www.forwomen.scot is taking legal action against the Scottish government for legislation defining 'woman' as anyone who chooses to call themself one.

It is in a single Bill - the Gender Representation on Public Boards Bill - but has already been quoted as a precedent by activists trying to persuade the Scottish parliament to state that the 'sex' category on the next Scottish census is to be based on self-identified 'gender'.

You can read about it here:
forwomen.scot/blog/

The Scottish Government seems to be getting itself into a bit of a pickle, doesn’t it? What with that and its Hate Crime Bill that sue posted the link about.

It does, janeainsworth.
It's not only the SNP, tho. This stuff is being happily accepted and promoted by politicians of all parties in the Scottish parliament.
(apart from a very few individuals)

Thanks from me to women like jaenainsworth, Chewbacca, FarNorth, suziewoosie and others. Thanks for expressing the genuine concerns about the attacks on women, because that's what some of the TRA groups are doing.
Two young women I know are part of the Make More Noise feminist group. They attended a feminist conference where the issue of TransActivism was discussed. Both subsequently had to delete social media accounts after receiving threats of violence and rape from men, men who claimed to be women of course and were part of the TRA group at the conference.

It’s all getting rather ridiculous, this PC stuff, especially around this tampon issue. Surely we all know who tampons are intended for? Or the manufacturers could state on the packet “this product is to be used during menstruation” if they need to spell it out. The world’s going crazy and so eager not to offend, that it’s creating issues. Careful wording is all that’s needed.

janeainsworth

^The point is that there are people who do not choose to call themselves women but who menstruate. Now are some insisting that they have to be called women?^
No, no-one is insisting people who have transitioned F to M have to be called women. No-one has said that at all.

Please can some posters understand that there are young people who choose not to identify as women they are not necessarily in the process of transitioning nor are they even considering transitioning. They simply choose to be identified as gender neutral that is they choose to be known as people. Therefore saying 'people who menstruate is correct' for them. I have always identified as female and have been an active feminist. When I first heard of gender neutral I didn't understand it at all, but having listened to all the combative and destructive comments and remarks made by people on both sides of this trans discussion I am beginning to understand what they are doing. If someone does not identify as "he" or "she" they are removing themselves from this battle and simply saying all barriers that exist because of gender are unacceptable and they reject them.

The world IS mad Maddyone.
And yes LadyBella you are spot on i`m with you all the way.

trisher if you reject gender completely as a social construct and believe whatever you wear and how you act is irrelevant, you have to accept that those of us who self identify as cis women are uncomfortable with sharing a single sex space, with someone who has a beard and penis. Especially where there are vulnerable women.

I find it interesting that the push to remove the word "woman" from hygiene products is not similarly matched with the removal of the word "man" from hygiene products. For example, Gillette still advertise their shavers as being "the closest shave that a man can get", and not a person? If society is looking for androgyny, why is it predominantly women who are baring the brunt of gender air brushing?

They are not removing themselves from any battle and I think it's really cruel to tell them that. So if a woman identifies as gender neutral it will have no difference on the discrimination they face due to sex. They will still be at high risk of sexual assault, they are at the same risk of discrimination in the work place if they get pregnant etc etc.

trisher that is a reasonable viewpoint but it does not mean that those people are not female/male or women/men.

Reduction of stereotypes based on sex or gender is welcome to me, as long as no-one is claiming that they literally are the opposite sex.

However people are claiming that and are insisting on everyone accepting it as fact, based only on their own announcement of it.

If society takes that on, as it is doing, it opens the door to anyone with wrong intentions, who are most likely to be predatory men.

I always thought transgender people were in a minority, but they seem to have taken over society and are dictating to the rest of us what we may or may not call ourselves. Let's get this straight. I am a WOMAN. I was born with all the organs necessary to procreate - that is what qualifies me to call myself a woman. I am not a woman because I 'feel' like one, nor because I had my male bits cut off. I am a woman because biology made me one. Whether I menstruated is neither here nor there. I am very sorry for those people who are born without a definite biological sex, but we're not talking about them here, we're talking about those who think they have the right to hijack womanhood and give it an entirely different meaning. I am fed up with the whole thing and now I don't care if I offend people. I think it's time biological women stood up for themselves - don't we have enough to put up with without all this nonsense?
Don't bother to post nasty remarks about me, because I shan't be reading them. Just needed to vent.

Aside from the gender discussion, has anyone had any experience or know anyone who uses these washable pads? My daughter mentioned something similar recently but it was pants with an in built washable pad. She was wondering if they might be good for my 14yr old GD. My concern would be that it surely wouldn’t last a full day at school and then once removed and changed it would need discreetly carried in a school bag to take home. The potential for teenage embarrassment would put me off the idea.

Starblaze

Why do I need to answer what makes a woman if I am not the one who is having a problem with trans women?

Explain to me how they aren't a woman in a way that will make me understand and make trans women feel any less like the woman they feel inside*

Also I did mention I would be more comfortable with a move towards seperate cubicles so I'm not sure why you threw that at me suziewoozie

Women can be and have been prosecuted as sexual predators too.

Trans women are biological men, an internal feeling doesn't make a man a woman.
It doesn't matter how much or how little surgery a person has. Human beings cannot change sex.Wearing a dress and high heels doesn't and will never turn a man into a woman.
98% of trans women don't have any surgery at all. Look up AGP Autogynephilia.

Can’t help you there Grannnannywanny

It seems to me that a great deal of products that are produced and sold are marketed for one gender or the other. A walk around the shop which is marketing these sanitary pads has ranges of face creams, deodorants, hair care products, shower gels, and probably many more products all aimed at one gender or the other. This is made obvious by the choice of packaging, usually darker colours for the men range, and lighter for the women range. I could quote actual products but I don’t think I’m allowed to so I won’t. As I mentioned earlier, the ‘sensitive bladder’ products state on the packet that they are for men. The others that my mum uses, presumably for women, simply state ‘sensitive bladder,’ so it seems her femininity has been removed, but not the masculinity of the ones for men. Someone has mentioned razors, some marketed for men, others for women, usually claiming to be sensitive.
If we were to go down the road of gender neutral, all of this would need to be changed. Is that what the public want? I don’t know. That’s why I started the thread. However, whilst anyone can use a face cream or deodorant, whatever the colour of the box, everyone cannot use sanitary pads. They are for women when they are menstruating. Whatever anyone wants to think, it is a fact that women menstruate, and it is a fact that cannot be changed.

Galaxy

They are not removing themselves from any battle and I think it's really cruel to tell them that. So if a woman identifies as gender neutral it will have no difference on the discrimination they face due to sex. They will still be at high risk of sexual assault, they are at the same risk of discrimination in the work place if they get pregnant etc etc.

Galaxy I don't think I (or anyone else) has any right to tell a young person what they should think or believe. They, like anyone else, are entitled to look at the issues and draw their own conclusions. The "removing themselves from the battle" was simply my way of trying to express what they are doing. I think it's very interesting and the outcomes are worth watching. I do think the constant dismissal of all ideas about gender on GN is very reactionary. In the 1970s we thought things would be better for women because we campaigned for legal changes but it hasn't worked out as we hoped. This may not either but that doesn't mean they aren't entitled to try.

Flowershop but I don't agree with you. My own reading doesn't agree with you. The doctors and scientists who have spent years gaining a high education, letters after their names, doing research, changing the structure of the DSM and finding/implementing treatments to help people correct their gender.... Don't agree with you. Trans people do not agree with you.

Yet you and others like you think your opinion makes you "correct" and me, trans people and a huge amount of very educated individuals "wrong".

I do not have to accept that I'm afraid.

Maybe the company had been pulled up previously for not being diverse in their marketing strategy and are protecting themselves?

I was just wondering if anyone on GN has watched 'Pose' on BBC i-player? It's a series about transsexual and homosexual culture in 1980s USA, at the time of the Aids epidemic. It's very enlightening. And it's set 40 years ago.

Totally agree with mrsHom. I am NOT against transpeople, bu feel that the majority of women are being bullied by a very small minority.

It's fine to not agree with other's opinions Starblaze, that's what discussion is all about. Just as it's absolutely fine for the majority of posters on this thread to not agree with you, or other gender deniers, that this seemingly tiny little act of airbrushing the word woman from the lexicon of femail descriptives, is a huge step against everything that the feminist movement has worked for decades to improve.