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Chris Whitty & Patrick Vallance @ 11.00 - what will follow?

(166 Posts)
Riverwalk Mon 21-Sept-20 08:14:02

It seems we are going to be given the science with figures and graphs - live on TV but no questions taken, from what I've read. I'm not happy with the no-questions bit if it's true.

And then what? Seems all a bit stage-managed by the government …. I wish they would just say what measures we can expect instead of dragging it out.

Mollygo Mon 21-Sept-20 13:11:57

I was happy to have the figures and the warnings presented without any fatuous and repetitive questions from the press and others.
Presumably most of the figures came from existing testing. We already know there are issues accessing testing so we didn’t need to hear that again.
So many reassuring posts on here. Thanks Rosina, Judib, Nipsmum, Gwyneth and Joesoap among others for their posts.
No speaker can satisfy everyone so I’d rather have the scientists and no political point scoring.

hollysteers Mon 21-Sept-20 13:19:20

Thank god the conspirator theorist has gone. My poor son housemates with someone now completely brainwashed by David Ickes, Bill Gates etc, going on demos and alienating his friends.
It’s like a cult and we have enough to worry about without adding to it.

Tillybelle Mon 21-Sept-20 13:23:14

NannyC2
Meanwhile, I'm off to watch UK Column news which is more reliable.
Great! Me too!

Alegrias Mon 21-Sept-20 13:23:57

hollysteers

Thank god the conspirator theorist has gone. My poor son housemates with someone now completely brainwashed by David Ickes, Bill Gates etc, going on demos and alienating his friends.
It’s like a cult and we have enough to worry about without adding to it.

Spoke too soon smile

Tillybelle Mon 21-Sept-20 13:38:20

Alegrias. You say. "Miller gets a lot of his facts from extraterrestrials. I googled that, so it must be true"

What in the name of truth are you talking about?
If you are going to try and accuse people of an ad hominem argument, maybe don't use one yourself?

If anything you have the wrong Miller. The book I have is
"Miller's Review of Critical Vaccine Studies: 400 Important Scientific Papers Summarized for Parents and Researchers"
by Neil Z Miller 1 Feb 2016. There is a similar one which I cited previously.
The contents of the book are not Miller's. They are the Scientific papers that have been published and Peer reviewed.

Also my argument was about what has been done and is being done. But I think you may be having trouble following the facts.

naughtynanny Mon 21-Sept-20 13:45:40

Taliya

More scare mongering and more hysteria ...7people will die in car accidents today and thousands from other illnesses...where is that blasted 24/7over in the media.

I totally agree with you Taliya.
We are only being told what suits the narrative.
There are now more people dying every day from suicide and other life limiting/threatening illness, that have been totally disregarded since the scaremongering about this. It's disgraceful. I'm sure many of us know loved ones who are waiting for appointments, treatments etc, that have just been left on the shelf. I've yet to meet anyone whose had this virus, or to meet anyone who knows anyone who has had this virus.
Does the Government really think that if they keep this 'do as your told' attitude up over Christmas, that absolutely everyone will abide by it. Of course they won't. Aged Grandparents possible stopped from seeing their beloved Grandkids at what is essentially the most important family time of the year. Nothing, but nothing would stop me from being with my family, and it shouldn't stop you either.

QuickFire9 Mon 21-Sept-20 13:55:30

Lemongrove I live in Scotland and am quite happy to have the choice of whether to turn my TV on for a daily update or not. You don’t have to. I’d rather have Nicola Sturgeon over Boris Johnstone, at least she seems to be more truthful and upfront and sack her advisors if they break the rules!

growstuff Mon 21-Sept-20 14:05:49

naughtynanny

Taliya

More scare mongering and more hysteria ...7people will die in car accidents today and thousands from other illnesses...where is that blasted 24/7over in the media.

I totally agree with you Taliya.
We are only being told what suits the narrative.
There are now more people dying every day from suicide and other life limiting/threatening illness, that have been totally disregarded since the scaremongering about this. It's disgraceful. I'm sure many of us know loved ones who are waiting for appointments, treatments etc, that have just been left on the shelf. I've yet to meet anyone whose had this virus, or to meet anyone who knows anyone who has had this virus.
Does the Government really think that if they keep this 'do as your told' attitude up over Christmas, that absolutely everyone will abide by it. Of course they won't. Aged Grandparents possible stopped from seeing their beloved Grandkids at what is essentially the most important family time of the year. Nothing, but nothing would stop me from being with my family, and it shouldn't stop you either.

More people are dying from suicide than what?

So you actually want hundreds of thousands of other people to die from Covid-19?

PS. Am off to take further instructions from my 5G implanted chip! hmm wink

growstuff Mon 21-Sept-20 14:08:20

PS. That's why the plan is to have Covid-free hospitals, which don't accept Covid patients, so treatment can carry on in those hospitals as normal.

The NHS does get some things right!

Tickledpink Mon 21-Sept-20 14:09:41

Covid will not be going away anytime soon, until a vaccine is available. But that's ok, we'll just lock down again and again or 'short circuit' for a couple of weeks to get that R figure back down, until the next time, then we can do it all again! More people are dying or will die from cancer, heart disease, strokes, and depression than covid. And let's not forget the real threat of the flu this winter. I'm in my 70th year, I'm slightly overweight, I possibly have a dodgy ticker, and I have weaker than average lungs, so I would not like to take a chance on catching covid. But I do take responsibility for my own life and the way I want to live it. If I feel it's too risky mixing with other people I simply won't go. I will wear a mask in shops, keep my distance etc, but I won't stop having a life, just in case I might get ill or die from covid or anything else. I'm more likely to die on the roads. Surely we can all take responsibility for ourselves to stay safe. At some point our number will be up, whether we are younger or older (whether untimely or otherwise) and I certainly don't need Mr Whitty, Boris or Mr Hancock to decide what I can and can't do. I have all the information I need to make my own mind up thank you very much. Our country and economy will recover, but not if we keep pulling down the shutters.

growstuff Mon 21-Sept-20 14:12:53

No, you are not more likely to do on the roads!

I looked the statistics up a few days ago and it's nonsense!

Alegrias Mon 21-Sept-20 14:15:51

I'm sorry everyone, I'm sorry, I won't post about this again, but I just have to do this one more time. I can't help it.

List of Neil Z Miller's publications:

worldcat.org/identities/lccn-n92099210/

Includes the one in the attached image

growstuff Mon 21-Sept-20 14:21:39

You might not need the government and medical advisers to decide what you can do. I don't either. I've left the house no more than six times since March and have seen my son twice. Other than that, I live on my own and I'm fed up with people moaning about how they can't cope.

I am no fan of anything this government says or does. However, I don't understand people who reject everything it says because they hate the state so much. I'm afraid it reminds me of the anti-social kids I sometimes used to come across as a teacher. I would have hoped adults would have grown out of that phase.

Unfortunately, some people do need to tell them what to do and it needs to be enforced. Some people point to Sweden as a role model, so it's interesting to read that people in Sweden generally respect social distancing and bars, restaurants and shops are shut down if they don't comply with regulations. Schools didn't shut, but it doesn't mean they were open for all pupils all the time. Again, social distancing was respected.

growstuff Mon 21-Sept-20 14:23:55

Alegrias

I'm sorry everyone, I'm sorry, I won't post about this again, but I just have to do this one more time. I can't help it.

List of Neil Z Miller's publications:

worldcat.org/identities/lccn-n92099210/

Includes the one in the attached image

Don't apologise!

It's really beyond belief that people believe this stuff, but it's growing. That's what the protest in Trafalgar Square was all about.

Maybe spaceships will arrive to take them back home.

Tickledpink Mon 21-Sept-20 14:25:04

growstuff you are entitled to your opinion. But I think you are missing the point here.

Dustyhen2010 Mon 21-Sept-20 14:25:16

OmaforMaya

Joesoap

I think the Government are doing a good job in this very difficult siuation,I think it is the general public who are doing the damage by not adhering to the rules. Why cant people see it is up to everyone to do everything they can to help we are all in it together.

I am in total agreement with you. I too think that the UK Government is doing just fine. I am in Scotland where we have had daily briefings from the Furst Minister which became daily political broadcasts. At first in the early weeks she waited to see what Westminster was doing and then somehow managed to get her Covid broadcast televised first. Now whatever is broadcast from Westminster she waits a week or so then follows suit. So we are usually a week behind England in any closures or such. The Scottish First Minister and her SNP followers are under the impression that she is doing a great job yet Scotland has had more deaths from Covid than anywhere. It's a farce that she's done well and I like many here in Scotland take instructions from the UK Government and not from the Scottish Government...which to be correct is the Scottish Devolved Assembly.

I too live in Scotland and am certainly not an SNP supporter but many like myself have been impressed by Nicola's handling of the situation. Contrary to what you say she often makes a decision and Boris copies. In fact that is why he is accused of so many u turns! I feel sorry for grans in England as we have been able to hug our little ones for a good few months now and the rule of 6 does not apply to the under 12's so our gatherings are better thought through. We also have all children back to school and no blended learning which I still think is the case in some parts of England. I watch our Scottish briefings when televised. I did watch part of Chris Whitty today but he produced a map which did not even include other nations and only showed England! Apart from finding out the situation from Nicola and the medical advisors she often has on, I also look at the 'Travelling Tabby" site which shows you all the details for your area. Well worth checking regularly.

Doodledog Mon 21-Sept-20 14:48:37

I think that the more information we are given, ideally from a few different sources, the more likely people will be to 'do as they are told', or not, if the information points to what we are being told to do as nonsense.

As it is, a 'do as I say, not as I do', approach, with a bit of 'just because' thrown in is, IMO, the reason why there is some resistance to the rules. It's not that 'other people' are 'stupid', or that they have no 'common sense' (whatever that is); it is that the rules appear to make no sense, and there has still been no explanation of why it is wrong to have 7 people in the house, but ok to go to work on the bus and then go to the pub afterwards.

We are not children, and even if we were, the 'we know best' approach would still not work for those with an enquiring mind. I understand that people are all different, and there are those who prefer to have rules to follow than to think for themselves. Fine, but they should also understand that there are those who prefer to understand why they are being asked to do things - it should cut both ways.

I think that if people understand why they are making sacrifices, and what the impact of those sacrifices is likely to be, they will put up with significant inconvenience and suffering. If they are just told to do something (and particularly if they hear from others that if they don't it it is because they are 'stupid') they are far more likely to resist.

Tweedle24 Mon 21-Sept-20 15:16:27

I agree entirely with all those who say that the more people have the information, the more they are likely to follow the advice or, as in some cases now, law rather than advice.

However, I suspect that, although the information is out there, not everybody bothers to watch, listen or read it. Even on here I have read read people saying they no longer listen to the news because it depresses them. If they don’t keep up with the current situation, how can they know what they are supposed to be doing/not doing?

I am sure that, on the whole, most people on here are pretty well informed but I think there are a lot out there who are not or, maybe are ill informed.

25Avalon Mon 21-Sept-20 15:23:10

Growstuff I agree with you.

growstuff Mon 21-Sept-20 15:24:26

I've posted this before, but un Bolton, which has the highest infection rate in the country, the MP says it's partly due to "Covid scepticism":

“They genuinely believe it’s some kind of conspiracy. A lot of them don’t understand the rules either and so there are many who just aren’t following them – they think it is a way of controlling them somehow. It is very dangerous.”

I think we have a couple of Bolton residents on GN.

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/coronavirus-conspiracy-theories-scepticism-behind-18967376

What a bunch of numpties!

QuickFire9 Mon 21-Sept-20 15:26:21

I’d like to point out too that I’m not an SNP supporter and was never really wild about Nicola Sturgeon but she has gone up in my estimation and I still think she’s doing a reasonable job. It’s the idiots breaking the rules that are making things worse.

sharon103 Mon 21-Sept-20 15:44:06

Gwyneth

Joesoap I agree I think it is about time the public started taking some responsibility and stop blaming the government for everything. Whilst many people have been careful, others really don’t care and have done what they like. I read somewhere that we have been and still are one of the worst countries in Europe for completely disregarding the guidance and rules. All people do in this country is complain and try to foist the blame on someone else. It’s evident throughout our society.

I agree and why some people think this is all a hoax is beyond me.

seadragon Mon 21-Sept-20 15:51:57

lemongrove

Honestly! If the government doesn’t make any announcements then they are castigated for it, and when they do they are accused of ‘stage managing’ things.
Apparently some people in Scotland want a daily dose of it.
I don’t want that, but think a weekly update would be beneficial, not only for an update but more to remind the public to keep on being careful, that this isn’t over yet and won’t be for quite a while.

We want a daily dose in Scotland because our First Minister appears at every briefing to take responsibility for any action and explains any decisions with compassion and empathy. She is well prepared for questions which she takes live from a range of sources and I have seen her only hesitate once. She has proceeded with caution and consideration and was close to eliminating the virus before restrictions were eased. She has had an interpreter for people with hearing impairment from the start and her companions at each briefing are relevant to the content of her briefing and are equally coherent and congruent in their delivery ....and more often than not they are women...

Mollygo Mon 21-Sept-20 16:05:48

Tickledpink said “I certainly don’t need . . . to decide what I can and can’t do. I have all the information I need to make my own mind up.”
Unfortunately that’s the attitude of a lot if the people who are responsible for spreading the virus. TP might mean that she is wearing a mask, social distancing, not going to large gatherings etc. and trying to keep herself and the community safe, but many others who say what she did simply mean they’ll continue to do as they like and tough on everyone else.

Tillybelle Mon 21-Sept-20 16:08:44

Alegrias and hollysteers
Thank god the conspirator theorist has gone. Spoke too soon.

You are clearly labelling me and making personal attacks directly at me. this is not what we do on GNet. I shall report it.

I have given information, using only facts available in the public domain and given the references where I can or where relevant. Anyone can verify them. Some research which was available for several years and has been Peer reviewed, has been censored, mysteriously, since it was simply ordinary scientific medical research.

The following is information from The Centre for Evidence Based Medicine and some the BBC if it uploads ok.
From the Centre For Evidence Based Medicine: “The only ‘circuit break’ we need now is from among the Govt’s doom-mongering scientific advisors who specialise in causing panic and little else” say Prof Carl Heneghan and Dr Tom Jefferson. Prof Heneghan says;
This nonsensical term ‘circuit breaker’ is not the only aspect of the Govt’s rhetoric that needs closer scrutiny, because it is the irrational unscientific use of language that is partly to blame for driving Ministers into making these mistakes. It is unfortunate that Mr Johnson is surrounded by mediocre Scientific advisors. It is strange and concerning that the govt is still relying on mathematical modellers who have a 20 year track record of getting things wrong. (He then points out Ferguson about whom I advise you to do your own research). 'In the week ending September 17th the England’s National Influenza Surveillance Report shows that “Rhinovirus positivity had increased by 23% in 7 days”. It is likely that the new school year set this in motion as it does every year. Covid too appears to follow this seasonal pattern picking up in the colder weather, but the death rate – so far at least – does not appear to be rising."
Prof Heneghan says, “for now the only “circuit break” we need is an end to the current cycle of bad data, bad language and shockingly bad scientific advice.”

Professor Heneghan is far from being the only very distinguished Scientist in a top position who is speaking out against what the govt are saying. For example, Nobel Prize for Science winner, Prof. Levitt of Stanford made the correct prediction of the death rate regardless of lockdown in February last as 0.04 to 0.05%. (Compare that to Ferguson!) He is saying again, now, how the ‘science’ has let us all down dreadfully. E.g. “As a group, scientists have failed the younger generation.” “Almost all the science we were hearing from organisations like the WHO was wrong”. “Nobody said to me, ‘let me check your numbers’*, they all just said, ‘stop talking like that’”. *A real scientist would have asked to check the numbers. A person with an agenda to push out would want to shut the mouth of someone whose accurate science showed results which did not support their agenda as his message was not politically acceptable.

The numbers the scientists used are all government ones.

Meanwhile, using their appalling scientists and ridiculous data analyses the government continue with inhumane treatment of our elderly relatives, who, effectively, are imprisoned and unable to touch their family or go out and be with them for the last days of their lives.

I shall endeavour to illustrate the numbers with graphs:
Bar chart shows: picture of deaths in UK that week, situation hasn’t changed massively in last 2 weeks. This is what the govt is using to justify claims of 50thousand and continue lockdown and so on.
BBC graph: death rate per 100,000 people: yes, since 2008 it was the same then, but prior to 2008 we see it was much higher and we never shut the country down then or ever before. So the BBC headline, as before, is utterly misleading, and merely for fear propaganda.