I Feel Terrible

Screaming, shouting, pulling hair out!!! and that was ME... the grannie!!! I have 5 grandchildren the eldest is long left school, then there was almost a 10 year gap!!! Then I had them like buses till there were 4 of the dear little darlings. Ive looked after them all practically since birth to let 2 families keep working full time, all different shift patterns, so I can be from 6.30am till 7pm and overnights and all day when school holidays etc, and I watch them all at the same time, there is now 1 @ 7 then 2 at 9, and now 1 at 12years old. I also worked full time on a split shift pattern and then it all took its toll, did I stop looking after the grandkids..NOPE! I cut my hours to part time, as I want to try and make sure my family don’t have to struggle financially. I’ve never taken a penny, I spend on my Grandkids treats, days out when I have them and feed them (obviously) all out my own pocket. I’m not complaining, it’s just me.... maybe I’m too soft..... but the one rule I have is when they’re with me, and they play up more than is necessary.... then Im ready to let them know, I’m here to listen, to love but not to lie down to their tantrums.... and I’ve used shouting, naughty step, no games/toys etc... whatever I thought worked for them as an individual.... and my family know it’s my rules of discipline when they’re with me, in fact they fully expect me to discipline them AT THE TIME.... as they say... by the time they come home from work the last thing they want to do is chastise their children as they will have missed them, and the last thing I want to do as they are leaving my house, where we have long since forgotten the episode and hugged and apologised, is grass on them. I have even told my family that if they misbehave in my house when the parents are collecting them, you know the bit where they start to play up because mummy or daddy is there ( so they are in charge now) and want to play grannie off the parents..... it is still me and only me who disciplines them while they are still in grannies house, that way they see that gran is in charge and mum and dad support her rules. They can be quite foxy the little ones, I adore my grandkids, and I know they love me to pieces, and yes I shout and scream and sometimes they listen, and sometimes they don’t.... but we all get along and respect each other’s personalities. Your daughter I think has a bit of growing up to do in this respect, hopefully she will remember a time you shouted at her.... or maybe she will have forgotten also.

Another one who practices ‘ my house, my rules’ here. It beggars belief how permissive some parents are. Walking around with food is my particular bugbear. My DD allows it but I don’t. Even at the tender age of three my twin granddaughters know what is/not allowed in my house and (mostly) comply.

My daughter in law wouldn’t let me look after either of her children it had to be her DM. It was ok by me cos I don’t adore children the way some people do. Anyway when DGD was just four her other nannie died of cancer so it then came down to me to do the childcare . DGS is a lovely well behaved boy but DGD was a screamer . Once or twice I shouted at her but the rest of the time I put my fingers in my ears and ignored her . She’s 9 now and I’m waiting outside her school to collect her . Her behaviour has much improved and she even laughs and says to me ‘ I was a screamer wasn’t I nannie?’ This will pass eventually for you .

I remember years ago reading a book by Penelope Leach where she said that it was a good thing for small children to see that there was a limit to how far a grown up could be pushed and we shouldn't beat ourselves up if we sometimes shout back.

Totally agree with Karalou51

Oh dear, I do feel for you BB.
I have certainly experienced this ‘punishment’ from my daughter when taking poor behaviour by my grandchildren.

I don’t like what I am going to say, but it’s so true and was told to me by an old and wise east end gran.... ‘she’ll want you before you want her’.... and when she does, make sure it’s on your terms.

I was trying to think how I would have felt if any of my children’s grandparents had shouted at them.
Well, maybe not great, but I would have felt worse that my children had been seriously misbehaving. Although I’m quite certain they would have always behaved, different times!

I might be missing something here but why are people suggesting you apologise to your daughter?
I have 4 children, all in their 40's now. There was only a 4 year gap between the first and last and all were totally different. I tell this story to show that I fully understand children misbehaving to the point of being out of control. But they can be brought back. Our 3rd was really hard work - biting, temper tantrums etc., though they were all brought up in exactly the same way, by the same group of family/friends, who all dealt with his behaviour in the same way. He was told a firm 'no' and what he'd done wrong. Until one day at the age of 3, in Tesco, he pulled a sweet stand over and threw himself on the floor face down, screaming and kicking. He had a thick duffle coat on. This unusual calm washed over me, I looked at him, asked a lady behind me to keep an eye on the other 3 then picked him up by the back of his coat stood him on his little stamping feet and walloped him on the bottom. He didn't even feel it through his coat but knew 'something' had happened. He just stared at me, speechless. I thanked the lady, gathered the four silent children and left the shop. (I rang later to apologise for abandoning my trolley!) Nobody spoke all the way home. Until my husband came home. Then, still calm, I told him he had the 3 as number 3 (he has got a name!) and I needed a chat. We went in the garden and all I said, very firmly was 'Don't you EVER do that to me again. Not at home, not when we're out. Not ever. Do you understand?' His little lip quivered and he nodded and he never did have another tantrum. He's grown up into the funniest, most caring human being and wonderful Dad (and son) in the world.
It seems the problem in the family here is that everyone is afraid of this child. Except Grandma who did the right thing, but then allowed her daughter to undermine her. Mum probably feels guilty because she knows what an absolute horror this child is. But the family needs to get a grip before she grows into an unchecked, uncontrollable teenager. All the child has learned from this is that her bad behaviour pays off. She can make adults argue and fall out.... what power!

After a bit of time for everyone to calm down, how about sitting down with your daughter and SIL to discuss the whole episode calmly and agree what will happen in future? Not with anger or accusations, just a conversation.

So maybe you could say that you realise that the "naughty step" is not the method that Mum and Dad use; you don't normally do that but were at the end of your tether. Then ask them to explain why they don't use the "Naughty step!" strategy so that you can understand their thinking properly. Listen to their reasoning and then ask them to explain to you exactly what their strategies are that they would like you to use. When they have told you, ask them specifically what you should do if those strategies are not working. If they are basically saying that she should be given her own way to stop her screaming (that might not be said directly but it might be what is actually the strategy!!??) then you can discuss with them what you plan to do if the screaming goes on and on. You can discuss what they ARE happy for you to do. If you are not happy with what is expected you will have to make a decision about childcare in the end. The best arrangements are where parents realise that they can give generalised guidelines and strategies for people providing childcare but that complete prescription and no leeway about different people's ways really doesn't work because of the need for adaptation to circumstances. However if you really don't agree with their behaviour management strategies and there is no compromise from their perspective either, then it will always be difficult sadly. Good luck.

For those saying that “if she can hold it together at school she can do so at home”, Often when a child has had to hold himself together at school, they let it out at home because it’s a safe environment. A lot of children have some very large feelings right now, and they do need an outlet to get them out. Even at five they are not verbal enough to properly say what’s wrong. Many posts on this entire forum from people who can’t properly always say what they want to say to family without falling out.

We shouldn’t expect better from children.

Should OP have yelled? Probably not, but it was in the heat of the moment.

Should she have told the parents? Absolutely did the right thing.

Daughter will get over it or not, but hiding it from her would have made it much worse.

I think we need to stop criticizing daughter and calling the child naughty/a brat/a little madam. None of that is kind OR productive and just feeds into an “I’m right /youre wrong” mentality that helps no one.

OP, I wish you good luck and a quick resolution.

Don't blame yourself. You had your other GC to look after too and doubt if there is a parent or GP who hasn't shouted trying to control a situation. There is the school of thought all bad behaviour should be ignored until the child calms and cooperates then praise given for the result. Screaming at length would test a saint's patience. Your DD needs to address her DDs behaviour and not put blame on you for your action in this instance.

The fact she was snatching her siblings' toys repeatedly to me means she was just looking for an excuse to be told off and therefore have a screaming fit. I mean like all of us, we like to have someone else to blame our unreasonable behaviour on. Looks like she wanted to get both her sibling and you into trouble. What happens at home when she screams and blames the sibling? Or the other parent? Does she scream and tell daddy "Mummy said I can't do x" and does daddy pick her up then and say "oh poor darling" and look daggers at the mother? Most behaviours have a reward, a reinforcement.

Now that the OP has come back I think there is another angle to this. Your dislike of the child’s father comes over, and probably this is why your daughter is mad at you.
In my view you had no need to feel guilty about shouting at the screamer, or to apologise, but obviously you did, as you told her daddy when he came to pick her up. That was your first mistake. Your second was in commenting on his action of hugging the child ( for being told off for being naughty). Sorry if that comes over as harsh.
If they don’t want you to do childcare now it is their loss and you can enjoy a break. They can put up with the screaming.
I suppose she is not in school during lockdown, so they have a lot to cope with. They will soon grovel and be begging for your help again. Then you can establish that it is “My house, my rules.”

We had two screaming grandchildren. If you have not experienced this it is horrendous. The only way I could deal with it was to hold the line. One screamed until she lost her voice but eventually she realised we would not give in. Your daughter is being hard on you, don't beat yourself up, this too will pass.

Yes Hithere you're right of course, but thats not my usual way, I was just so wound up I blurted it out.

Some years ago in the park we could hear the screaming getting closer. A grandma appeared pushing this screaming little girl in a buggy. Oh dear she's not happy said my friend a very weary looking grandma replied she never is. I wonder whether your daughter ever shouts if screaming is a common occurrence, even the best of us reach breaking point.

My daughter used to put the two little ones to sit on the stairs for time out if they started screaming. If they tried to come back into the room, they were taken back. Now they're 7 and 8 and if they throw a strop every now and again then something they enjoy is with held. When I look after them, I've done exactly the same and they love me to bits. When I left my daughter aged 12 with my mum for a weekend, my mum told her she had the same rules as I did. Quick as a flash my daughter said "We don't have rules, we just know what we can and cannot do" lol Children need boundaries and it sounds as though you're daughter needs to start setting some.

The only way children can learn is to be told and if that does not work to be put in 'time-out' if that still does not work I would raise my voice. I see nothing wrong with that providing you are raising your voice about the behaviour and not the child. So 'I have had enough of this and you can stay right there and scream all you want and when you decide to stop, you can come back in the room!'
Raising our voices is a natural way of communicating and so the early the lesson, the more aware the child becomes.
If we raise our voice and say 'I am sick of you acting like a spoilt brat and it is foolish', then you attack the child.
I shouted at my children and soon enough they knew by my voice that they were going to far.
Do not feel bad about it for 5 years old is old enough to know their behaviour is disruptive and if it is rewarded, they will keep on with the screaming.
So no matter how your daughter feels and I am sure your granddaughter will have made a real fuss about it it was you who was looking after the children and so you did what was natural. Kids who use screaming to get their own way, need to be stopped or they will learn other ways to manipulate.
Your granddaughter is at the age when I could sit and talk with my son about how and why they were 'playing up'. I was lucky that I raised my sons to sit and negotiate and compromise.
I never hit them, but did raise my voice. I was given good hidings from 4/5 and I mean good hidings, along with my brother. It ended when I showed my grandma the bruises and welts, at 10 years old.
Let it go, you did nothing wrong it was a natural reaction to a child who was old enough to understand.

Maybe a wprd with the child - when she is calm - that she needs to follow your rules in your house, and screaming will mean she can't visit. Like I said before she wont be screaming at school so can learn to stop in your home.

beautybumble, My granddaughter use to scream all the time at one stage I threw her out the front door and said let the neighbours and all the town here what you are like. Left her out there for ten minutes and she stopped. Another time my daughter took her shopping and she started screaming in the middle of the big store my daughter got down on the floor and starting kicking her legs and screaming. This put a stop to her screaming. She told her I can scream louder than you. At least the staff in the shop knew what my daughter was doing as they had heard my granddaughter scream in there several times before.

On a lighter note does anyone else remember Violet Elizabeth Bott in the Just William books? She used to threaten 'I'll thcream and thream until I'm sick. I can, you know'. It usually worked on William!

Poor you! My heart goes out to you. As the mother of a child who had a set of behaviours that would make your teeth curl, I sympathise. I was glad of my mum’s input and we got through it together. My child is now in her 40s and a doctor. I have a lot to thank Mum for and so will your daughter, I’m sure. X

You say your GD is a screamer and I suspect that this is because she knows her mum doesn’t know what to do when she starts. A child of this age needs boundaries and she needs to know in no uncertain terms that there will be consequences if she crosses them. Unfortunately this is the parents’ responsibility. If she keeps getting her own way every time there’s a screaming match she’s not learning life lessons and she’ll have a harder time later on. If your daughter won’t let you discipline her while she’s in your care, then rather than her telling you that you’re no longer needed, I think it’s time to tell your daughter that until she gets some control over a badly behaved child, you’re actually not willing to look after her.

For what it's worth I think you did the right thing. You maybe shouldn't have raised your voice but we're all only human. If your GD had been treated this way every time she decided to scream to get her own way then perhaps she wouldn't be doing it anymore.

Your gd is seeing how far she can push you .keep on with the naughty step.just forget about shouting at her and just carry on As normal. Don't give in to her.my GS was the same he soon learnt that he couldn't do anything in his time out.and it worked when he was back in control of himself and a sorry was offered then he could come back in.sometimes he was there for half an hour