Reasonable expectations for a grandparent taking grandchild/ren?

The smoking would be a no no to me as well. She sounds manipulative. I think tell her politly and firmly that going forward you dont want to continue these visits.
It will be hard and you should not have started this, but it has happened and you now need to take a stand for the sake of your toddlers health.

I think you will have tears and sobbing to try to guilt you into leaving it as it is.

Stand firm , your daughter needs you to be firm, kind but steadfastly firm.

Your Mil has no right to insist on having your child overnight, in fact, she has no right to demand any time with your child.
You are the Mother and your child will want to be with you, first and foremost.
As others have said, you must tell Mil that you are not happy about overnight stays at the moment and your child is happier at home with you.
She will definitely throw a hissy fit, just ignore and repeat your new intentions.
If you can’t get your husband on board, you must make him see that you are immovable on this decision and you must be strong for yourself and your child.
To be fair, I wouldn’t want this domineering, smoking woman anywhere near my child and your husband needs to cut the apron strings and stop being such a Mummy’s boy.

You will get tears, be prepared for that. You need to be able to stand against that rather than let it manipulate you into giving in. I'm not saying she is deliberately manipulating you with tears, but it's going to make you feel bad. If that happens, keep your thoughts on who you are doing this for. Children always come first.

you need to remember that you are an adult, and she has no authority over you.
simply state your position, without attempting to justify it.
do not slip into discussing it, as that can slide into trying to get her agreement or to understand, sympathise with your position.
resist that. stand firm. no need to be rude. be clear and calm.
take control.
read up on assertive communication.
good luck.

Mil: blah blah blah I want blah, how about tomorrow for blah
You and your dh: no, it doesn't work for us. We will contact you when we have an opening in the schedule
Mil: but.... blah blah.... tears... blah...
You and dh: no, still doesnt work for us
Mil: but wahhhhhhhhhh it's not fair
You and dh: we can see you are very upset. We will contact you for a visit/park walk/ etc
Bye
(Hang up the phone)

I forgot this was the smoking mil!

Mil: I want blah blah how about on blah day
You and dh: mil, smoking is very harmful.
When we see you next, please wear clean clothes that you haven't smoked in and avoid smoking in front of us and baby.
Mil: why? Blah blah blah. Baby is safe with me blah blah
You and duh: we are the parents and we want the best for our child.
We will contact you for a visit and please remember that if we are able to smell any tobacco, we will cut the visit short
Mil: what! Blah blah is so unfair you are paranoid, overprotective, blah
You and dh: we can see you are upset. We will let you go now and we will contact you when we are able to meet
Mil: tears cry tears screams
You and dh: hang up the phone

Thank you everyone these are very helpful reminders and suggestions! Definitely feeling more confident. We will be seeing her this weekend so hopefully we will be able to have a chat with her and all will go well!

@Hithere yours actually made me chuckle a little bit. Actually sounded spot on we'll have to try that.

wildflower I wouldn’t even mention the smoking,

“I’ll stop smoking immediately then, I promise” , MIL then stops smoking with 2 weeks.

Then what will you do? She stops smoking and expects to have the GC even more often.

The other thing that could happen is what I got: "It's not fair to expect me to stop smoking, it's an addiction." "It didn't hurt you." "I don't smell, baby will be fine." "Parents today are so overprotective about the smallest things." "I wouldn't hurt my grandchild!" "I haven't had a smoke for half an hour, it should be fine now."

@Oopsadaisy She actually did that when my husband asked her to stop undermining him in front of his child. I was really proud of him for doing this. But she ended up quickly appologizing and then asked to take the GC, we ended up having to give her up the following tues. I joked with him that she specifically won't undermine us in front of our child anymore, but in every other regard still seemed to be doing so.
It becomes a trust issue. If she can't respect our decisions to our faces, how can I trust she will respect them when she is alone with our daughter? Or if she only quickly changes for the sole purpose of taking our daughter?

@CafeAuLait I honestly don't expect her to quit smoking, she has for years. And I think it is that that always made me question if it was fair to make it an issue when she seemed to be trying so hard to make sure it wasn't an issue. She always washes her hands before touching the GC, etc... But then I started to suspect she only was super careful when we were there and not so much when we weren't there. I did catch her once trying to take the GC outside with her for a smoke at family's house. She insisted she'd hold the cigarette away from her, and I just looked at her like she was crazy and walked my daughter in the other direction. My husband's entire family smokes, including around children, so I'm not sure if they actually would see it as overprotective! Haha.

we ended up having to give her up the following Tues

No! You didn't have to do Wildflower, you just allowed Mil to call the shots and have her own way, with your child.
You really do need to stand your ground here!

I haven’t read any responses, because I don’t like to be influenced by them. So sorry if I’m repeating.

We get lots of posts like this. Young mums trying to please people around access to their children. In my opinion.....the welfare of your child/ children is paramount. You are not giving excuses, but reasons, why your MIL should not be around your child.

Your husband needs to address this, and your MIL should have no access to your daughter without you being there. The fact she smokes should make it all easier. An absolute no no.

I wouldn’t have been comfortable for people to take my children out so young, but can appreciate some grandparents are fit and able enough to do this safely. My parents/ in laws...weren’t.

Her comments about you spending too much time with your daughter are ridiculous. That’s what you’re supposed to do!!

Please talk about this fully. Give her a chance, but never put anyone’s interests before your child’s.

All the best.

@Buffybee and that's exactly what it felt like too. My husband pleaded her case because she appologized and I deferred to him in that instance, but it didn't sit well with me at all. The whole thing felt very wrong and I actually ended up having a panic attack that day, I'm not usually prone to those. So I told him I wouldn't be doing that again. We're still working out getting on the same page. I'm trying to be patient with the situation as best I can, because I believe there is emotional and psychological abuse there that makes it very hard for him to let his mom down. It took me a long time to realize this though, because it all happens behind my back. She is very sweet to my face and never hastles him when I am around. I've had to double check if my concerns were unfounded when things felt off but I couldn't pinpoint why.

@DiscoDancer
Thank you for your input! Yes I am trying to encourage him to talk to her, I don't think that anything I said to her would hold any weight anyways. I am worried we will get a lot of slack for approaching these issues so late in the game though, it has been over two years since our daughter was born and we haven't tried to deal with the issues until now. I think this will make it difficult.
It has felt from the beginning as though she were trying to drive a wedge between us and our daughter. In the beginning I chalked this up to me simply being an insecure new mom. But even now it feels like she has more of a claim to my daughter than I do sometimes.
As if she were a possession instead of a person and my MIL is playing tug of war.
Thank you for the advice and perspective!

OP, have you thought of asking this question on MN ?

The alternative to giving way to all your MiL's unreasonable demands is not estrangement. You are not going to estrange yourselves from her - and if she goes off in a huff she is the looser because she will not see her grandchild.

What you have got to do is say quietly and firmly: Our child, our rules. And then stand unmoved as the resulting storm swirls around you.

What should the rules be? Personally I would not allow any child of mine that is as young as yours spend more than about 30 minutes in a house of a smoker.

I would be saying firmly to your MiL that you do not want your DD spending more than very short periods in a smoky atmosphere and that while she (your MiL) continues smoking this must mean that while she continues smoking and her house smells of tobacco, you must limit your child's visiting time there to sessions of 30 minutes only.

Again, personally, my children were 7 or 8 before they went and stayed with their grandparents overnight, other than very occasionally, as baby sitters, where we would collect them before we went to bed or would stay the night ourselves. I certainly would not let a child as young as yours stay the night with someone who is clearly unreliable and also where the visit, as here, causes the child distress.

MiL's crying is a form of bullying known as emotional blackmail. If you won't do what she wants, she will cry and cry to make you feel guilty so that you give way. Just remember that and next time she tries the crying trick on you, and it is a trick, Just ignore it and stick to your guns. Once she realises that it doesn't work she will stop doing it.

The same applies to her saying that the child is spending too long with her mum. It is another way of trying to emotionally blackmail and manipulate you to give her her own way. It is not long since the received wisdom was that mothers were meant to be with their under 5s all the time.

Face up to the fact that this woman is a bully, trying to force you to do what she wants, without any real regard for the baby or her parents. You need to quietly but firmly tell her you are in charge and have the strength to stand-up to her when she tries to beat you into submission.

Unfortunately the boundaries are blurred for her and she is trying to treat DGC as her child. Not that unusual, I'm sure we all have to stop ourselves taking over on occasion, but she is either not aware or not interested in being reasonable. Make the boundaries very clear for her and say that now you are more confident parents you both feel it is better for your daughter to be in her own home. Find some research for her if necessary about separation anxiety in toddlers. She is welcome of course to come to see you and play with her DGD. You're going to have to be very firm - staying calm through her tantrums will be good practice if your daughter goes through a similar stage.

MIL’s can be wonderful or awful and every variation between the two.You sound as if you are being kind and thoughtful to her, which is nice and you see that she loves your little girl.
I think I would say that your daughter has difficulties in settling at night and often needs you ( Mum) so sleepovers will have to come along when she is older.Of course, if you appreciate that your MIL will give you and your husband help with childcare so that you can have a break somewhere, you would then have to do without that for a few years.

@Welbeck I might throw the question around in other places and see what I get, but I definitely wanted the perspective of grandparents too. I wanted to be able to understand the other side of this and also see what other grandparents thought. I thought it might help me to remain more objective.

Wildflower222

@Buffybee and that's exactly what it felt like too. My husband pleaded her case because she appologized and I deferred to him in that instance, but it didn't sit well with me at all. The whole thing felt very wrong and I actually ended up having a panic attack that day, I'm not usually prone to those. So I told him I wouldn't be doing that again. We're still working out getting on the same page. I'm trying to be patient with the situation as best I can, because I believe there is emotional and psychological abuse there that makes it very hard for him to let his mom down. It took me a long time to realize this though, because it all happens behind my back. She is very sweet to my face and never hastles him when I am around. I've had to double check if my concerns were unfounded when things felt off but I couldn't pinpoint why.

@DiscoDancer
Thank you for your input! Yes I am trying to encourage him to talk to her, I don't think that anything I said to her would hold any weight anyways. I am worried we will get a lot of slack for approaching these issues so late in the game though, it has been over two years since our daughter was born and we haven't tried to deal with the issues until now. I think this will make it difficult.
It has felt from the beginning as though she were trying to drive a wedge between us and our daughter. In the beginning I chalked this up to me simply being an insecure new mom. But even now it feels like she has more of a claim to my daughter than I do sometimes.
As if she were a possession instead of a person and my MIL is playing tug of war.
Thank you for the advice and perspective!

It’s never too late to change things. You can’t be blamed for doing what you thought was the ‘ nice ‘ thing to do in the early months up until now. Addressing issues now rather than before is actually better, because it shows you’ve tried, but you’re now not happy with it. Nothing wrong with that. If your MIL is more difficult, it shows she doesn’t have your daughter’s best interests at heart. The smoking alone would do it for me.

We spent many years trying with my in laws, 25 to be exact. In that time, we were on and off seeing them, the longest I think was 3 years. We finally estranged 20 years ago.Best move ever.

Hopefully, it won’t come to that with you, but your daughter and perhaps any other children you have, will notice the friction, mine did, and then any hope of your in laws having relationships with your children will be gone.

Your husband is the key here. Good luck.

@M0nica Thank you I think you have some excellent insights there and sound advice.

@Justwokeup I have wondered that myself if possibly she is just unaware? Sometimes it seems too intentional but I am unsure. Either way you are probably right.
Haha yes good practice.

@lemongrove thank you for your input! That might be a good way to phrase it to her. Maybe we'll try that

Sorry Monica. I wouldn’t let my child stay one second in a smoky environment. I agree with those who say that this one thing is enough for you to have full justification to refuse contact with your daughter. I do hope you can resolve all this though, but not to suit her, to suit your child.

@DiscoDancer
That does make me feel better and maybe you are right about that. In regards to the smoking I'm not sure why I didn't step in on that sooner. I think I didn't really feel like I was in charge and that I didn't have a choice? I let my daughter ride in the smokey car and sleep in the smokey house because my MIL assured us that it was okay and now I wonder what I was thinking in that?

I'm sorry that you went through that with your in laws. That sounds like it was a long journey. I wonder what is ahead for us in this. It's good to know others have experienced similar things as well.
I do worry about the impact it may have on my daughter's relationship with her and I hope it doesn't come to that.
Thank you!

@Toadinthehole
Thank you!

agree. there is no safe time for exposure to tobacco smoke.
over 30 years ago dr miriam stoppard said anyone who is a smoker should not hold a baby.
let alone take it to their home.
and she didn't mean only while they were actually smoking or holding a cigarette.
she pointed out that the residues clung to a person's hair, skin, clothes, and exhaled breath.
but OP, regardless of that, you do not need a good enough reason to resist your MIL taking your child. she has no right to do so, nor should she have any expectation to do so.
you and your husband have given her that. your child may resent you for it later on. take back control. now.