Massive Family Problem

The OP says in the OP that they are not real names.

I do not withdraw a word of what I have written above. This is a classic case of a family in denial. They are enabling an addict to a quite an astonishing degree. The sums involved are way beyond 99%, no, 99.9% or more of most households. This is co-dependancy on a worryingly intense scale.

What concerns me most is the damage they are doing to the addicted sister, making her recovery more and more difficult, helping her dig the hole she is in deeper and deeper, yet they see their behaviour as loving and supportive.

What you can do is to talk to Brenda and explain what you think is going on here. You can also talk to Ellen.
Apart from this there’s nothing you can do to rescue anyone.
You are all adults and can all make decisions for yourselves.
Maybe this will end with Ellen taking everything that your DM and Brenda have but that is not in your control.
Maybe DM will choose not to bail out Ellen if it leaves Brenda homeless.
You cannot control this situation OP.

I think the idea of a cap on payments for day-to day items is a good idea.
If there was a small limit on extras over and above the actual food/day to day shopping that surely would help.

It's a pity they have massive fridges/freezers as there's no way all these discounted items would fit in an ordinary fridge freezer...
I realise it's more than groceries but
baby steps.

I too would find the idea of Ellen moving in with mum and Brenda unthinkable. That can't happen...
What a difficult situation.
You can't just make Brenda "toughen up" but if course that's what's needed.
Might she be able to say "no" more easily if you all made a sort-of "pact"? It would at least give Brenda an excuse.

Definitely talk to your siblings as a group.
Good luck.

There is something rather sad going on here in that shopaholic Ellen has this compulsion to keep buying stuff for her mother and sister that they neither want nor need.

Abbey/Meg has described their mother as a matriarch which may be just a word or may mean they regard her as a powerful and domineering force within the family who is not to be displeased or disagreed with

I think so as they are all jumping through hoops to protect her from the truth when what Mother, as well as Ellen, need is a darn good talking to. Somewhere upthread, Abbey/Meg said Ellen doesn’t want her mother to know the truth. In other words not to break Mother’s fantasy that her favourite daughter has got heself into a mess and isn't the great success Mother thinks she is.

From what I can gather, Mother thinks all the stuff coming into the house is being paid for from Ellen’s own salary rather than knowing that her carer daughter Brenda had handed over her life savings to bail Ellen out of some of her debts.

So why is so much of Ellen’s spending on things for her mother and sister? Why does she need to buy their affection because that’s what it sounds like to me.

Brenda has been described as sweet, naive, not streetwise and liking sparkly things. If mother is 87 and Brenda is the second eldest I’m guessing she must be in her sixties. Abbey/Meg says Brenda earns 16k pa which is minimum wage but also describes her as mother’s carer so is that 16K being earned outside the home or is mother paying Brenda a wage? Is isn’t clear but could be important. Abbey/Meg still hadn’t explained why Mother is leaving the house and all her money to Brenda. I’m wondering if she is vulnerable and needing protection in some way. It would be an unsual family of five siblings happy to see all their mother's estate go to one sibling unless there is a very good reason for it. Or perhaps, Brenda has made enormous sacrifices to care for Mother. In all of this there has never been a mention of Father or what happened to him.

I think there is a lot we don’t know about this family dynamic but it seems clear that Mother is central to how everyone behaves and that has to change.

Meg what do you believe would happen if Mother was told about the true situation?

If Mother believes that Ellen is doing wonderfully well, why would she also believe that she needs to give Ellen all her money?

Would Mother really be happy to leave Brenda penniless and homeless, in order to give everything to Ellen?

Mmmn. Interesting point *FarNorth.

So, Ellen thinks she doesn't have a problem, even though she's had to take Brenda's 46k life savings, AND she still has debts around 85k?! Her excessive spending is having a detrimental effect on your whole family, and it needs to be stopped!

Your whole family need to come together, with Ellen, and explain to her once and for all that this can't go on any longer. You need to make her aware, in no uncertain terms, that there will be no more bail outs, and she needs to work out a plan to pay back Brenda's money. She needs to be told, very firmly, that the spending has to stop. That no one in the family wants/needs her gifts, which she can't afford to buy anyway!

You should offer to help her make a plan, by sitting down with her to go over her finances, and work out how to get her out of this mess, by closing credit card accounts, and consolidating payments for them, and contacting companies to try to agree some sort of monthly payment that she could manage. Most importantly, she needs to be making a regular monthly payment to Brenda to pay back the 45k. She obviously has absolutely no moral conscience whatsoever, to have taken her Brenda's life savings, knowing she earns so little, when she has a good job with a very generous salary.

Instead of enabling her to carry on this outrageous lifestyle, which is having a detrimental effect on the rest of the family, she needs to be told truths, and made to feel ashamed of her actions. Until then, she will continue to do as she pleases, and your mother could end up losing her own home if Ellen gets into much more trouble and has no alternative but to ask your mother to bail her out!

Some may say Ellen is an adult and it's none of your business to interfere in her financial affairs, but when it effects other family members it absolutely becomes other people's business! You have a right to interfere, in order to protect your mother, and Brenda.

Could your mother know what is going on but choosing to ignore it?

if Ellen gets into much more trouble and has no alternative but to ask your mother to bail her out!

That is never the case.
Ellen has the options available to anyone else in debt, which don't include taking from her mother.

Ellen should be faced with the consequences of her actions and probably needs to have counselling and expert help to deal with it.

Step Change is a charity that helps with debt, or try Citizens Advice.

Ellen is ill and needs psychiatric help , in fact you all need it !

FarNorth

^if Ellen gets into much more trouble and has no alternative but to ask your mother to bail her out!^

That is never the case.
Ellen has the options available to anyone else in debt, which don't include taking from her mother.

Ellen should be faced with the consequences of her actions and probably needs to have counselling and expert help to deal with it.

Step Change is a charity that helps with debt, or try Citizens Advice.

Granted, Ellen does have other options, but it is often the case that people who get themselves into debt will first scrounge from family/friends, until the bail-outs dry up, before attempting to deal with the problem in some other way, as we have already seen here, with Ellen taking 46k of Brenda's life savings. Ellen has no morals, she will continue to take, and indeed expect, bail-outs until the family put a stop to it.

Nansnet of course they do but it is never a case of "no alternative".

FarNorth, I do agree with you, and I admit that I didn't explain myself correctly. Ellen does indeed have other options, but, as she's obviously in denial, she's unlikely to take them, unless her family confront her, and agree not to bail her out, and make her face up to the problem.

But you first have to get the family to see that this is the only way to solve the problem. But in this case, as in so many others, the family are complicit with the gambler and submit to her blackmail and are part of the problem. It is just they have far more cash available to support the gambler than most familie.

So, unfortunately, the crunch, when it comes, will be so much more devastating for all of them.