Sorry, long post!
DH and I have been discussing what to do when he eventually retires. Although it's not about to happen just yet, we do need to start making plans, as we currently live overseas. We need to decide where we're going to live as it will take time to find the right location/property. We've been having discussions about this for a very long time, so we certainly won't be rushing into anything without having already given it lots of thought and research. We've often gone around in circles, favouring one place over another, then changing our minds again a few months later! However, the time has now come when we do need to make some decisions.
Being long-time expats, we've always imagined that we'd eventually set down roots overseas, somewhere warm, where all the family can come to visit. However, as we're getting older, we wouldn't totally rule out returning to the UK (we do still have our house there, although we'd probably sell it and buy in another location). But, DH has some concerns about returning, as he's worried that we wouldn't be able to settle there, or we wouldn't 'fit in' after being away for so long.
We have a DD living in the UK with her partner, and I have no doubt they will get married, and hope to have children in the not too distant future. My DS & DiL live in another country, with our two young GDs, who (before Covid!) we used to visit regularly as they are only a short flight away from us.
Now, the dilemma! We are a very close family, and we have a great relationship with both our DD and DS, and their respective partners. BUT, geographically, we can't be close to all of them. I know that DD would love for us to return to the UK, and she's always said she wants us to be 'hands-on' grandparents if/when she has children, which is something I've always wanted to be in the position to do. Plus, I miss her terribly! However, if we relocated back to the UK, I can foresee that DS & his family probably wouldn't be too enthralled with the prospect of spending a lot of money on long-haul flights to the UK, to spend their 'holidays' with us in an average home, with dreary weather most of the time, and I wouldn't blame them!
However, if we relocated to say, Spain, for example, we'd be able to afford a house large enough to accommodate all of our family, with a pool, not far from the sea/beaches, etc., and I know that DS and his family would enjoy many long school holidays with us (they are both teachers). It would also be just a short flight to/from the UK for my DD & her partner to visit, and for us to visit them. But, of course, we'd never have that properly close relationship, or 'hands-on' grandparenting if she has children.
On one hand, my heart is telling me it would be better to be properly close to at least one of our children, and if we return to the UK we would be close to our DD, and also fulfil her wish, and mine, of one day being close to any potential GC she may give us. But this would mean we wouldn't see as much of our DS and his family, and it would kill me not to see our little GDs growing up.
On the other hand, my head is telling me to buy a home elsewhere, where all the family could enjoy regular holidays/visits. But that would mean we wouldn't be properly 'close' to either our DD or DS, and my husband & I would be on our own for the majority of the time in another country. That doesn't bother me, per se, as we are used to living overseas, and enjoy different cultures/exploring, and we have no problem making friends, etc.
What I am worried about is, if we were to relocate to Spain, would we live to regret not having that properly close relationship to at least one of our children? Or, should we consider a return to the UK to be close to our DD, but at the cost of seeing less of our DS and his family? Or, do we relocate to a place where both DD, and DS, can enjoy visits/holidays, but obviously not as often as we'd like to see them all, and we'll miss out on the closeness, and 'hands-on' grandparenting?
Retirement is something my DH and I have looked forward to for a long time, but right now I'm having sleepless nights about it all, and I feel in such a quandary about what to do!
What do other retirees think? Has anyone here been in a similar situation, and had to make decisions about what to do? What decisions did you make, and were they the right ones for you? Any advice or opinions will be greatly appreciated.
Grannygrumps1
Something to consider…… the government are planning to stop paying brits pensions if they live abroad. It’s something that’s in the pipeline. Would this affect you in any way which might sway your decision.
Could you provide a link/reference to the bit about the govt planning to stop paying pensions to Brits abroad please?
You really do have a dilemma, don't you? I have no idea what I would do in your position.
However, you don't say how long your DS has been in his current location, but your DD may be thinking that it's her turn to have you closer.
My aunt and uncle lived in Spain but returned to the UK for healthcare reasons as they reached their later years.
Have you discussed this with either of your children? Their views might surprise you.
I think, as others have said, that in the end you should do what makes you happiest. Any decision is going to bring regrets if it is imposssible to be close to both offspring at once, so make the move that will give you less regrets if you can.
For us, reaching 60ish was the start of a new adventure. I think that provided you keep your present house in the UK to future proof you against property price increases, why not do what you both would like for a few years. You can always change your mind when you get to 70. That's still young.
GrannyGrumps1,
Could you elaborate on the plan to stop Brits overseas collecting their pensions? I am now 87 and retired at 66. Currently I am overseas staying with my son. I came in November 2019 but the virus intervened but I am now booked to return here. Apart from some healthcare concerns I am considering to end my days here as I have plenty of help here and two dogs who I love. My son lives alone and he lives in a large house so we have plenty of space so we do not spend a lot of time cooped up in the same living space. I would really be affected if I lost my state pension.
I do not think the government could remove our pensions retrospectively but if what you say is true, I will have to make enquiries from the state pension providers.
Please reply.
You gave lived in places far and wide from your family so far and enjoyed it. You seem to be placing an awful lot on something that may never happen eg DD and GC. Your idea of choosing somewhere central so both DS and DD can visit seems to fit with what you like and hopefully what your family will enjoy too.
A friend who retired to Spain had the lonely task of managing a partner with early dementia in a language which wasn't their mother tongue. While awaiting diagnosis he lost a lot of money, scammed over property deals and invesents. They had to relocate back to the UK and lost a huge amount more money in doing so, mostly due to soaring property prices in the UK. This further damaged their financial security and as he'd been the main breadwinner, left her in a difficult position when, sadly, he died not long after a diagnosis on the NHS. May be worth modelling a worst case scenario as part of your decision making imho, how might either of you cope if I'll or alone.
Anniel I think that GrannyGrumps has misunderstood something. For those of us who moved to the EU whilst the UK was still a member there was an agreement that our state pensions would increase in line with those paid to UK residents. For most other countries the pension does not increase once you have left the UK so, if you leave the UK when you are 65 and live until your 85 or 95 you will still received the same amount as you received at 65. ie the amount that you receive will be sent in stone from the date you leave.
My understanding is that those of us who are resident in EU countries will continue to receive the annual increases but I wouldn't put it past this government to put a stop to that.
We came back to the UK in our early seventies after 15 years in Spain. We settled in a small village in Oxfordshire approximately an hour and a half from family. We have been made welcome by the village but have to accept that our friendships will stay at a superficial level.
We missed the lifestyle and the friendships we had in Spain, and especially the weather. Since coming back we both feel we have aged and developed ailments. Our lifestyle was an outdoor one in Spain and we find the long winters very hard to deal with.
Our solution was to buy a small house in Spain in the area we previously lived in. We can spend two periods of 90 days per year under the new regulations but are no longer entitled to health care. We both feel we made a mistake by returning to the UK and giving up our residence rights.
Before you make any final decisions I would spend time in your home in the UK, preferably in winter, to give you a more realistic idea of living here after so long away.
The grass is not always greener.
I understand exactly how you are thinking - we have sold our main residence (a larger residence) and bought two smaller residences, one in France and one in the UK. My daughter lives in the UK and we have been living in the Alps in France. It used to be easy for us all to pop and see each other but Covid stopped that so we now spend 6 weeks here and 6 weeks there. It seems to work quite well. If my daughter wasn't in the UK I wouldn't really return it just feels such a hectic place to be. Personally my choice would be to be in France full time as it is such a more simple way of life however the OH would rather be in the UK. At some stage we will need to return but I am hoping not too soon and that the 6 weeks / 6 weeks works for us all for the time being.
Move near your daughter and be part of her life and the lives of any children she might have. Your son and his family will visit you in the UK - as the novelty of a Spanish holiday would very soon wear off. In the UK you have the NHS and a very pleasant, secure, tolerant and peaceful environment.
I have immeasurable pleasure living less than an hour from one of my DD and two GC and an adorable whippet. In enriches both of our lives immensely and we see them regularly but I do not offer regular child care as I value freedom and spontaneity too much!. My other DD and her family live over 3 hours away but in a beautiful part of the UK near the coast so DH and I enjoy many short breaks there.
I’m fed up of people knocking the UK. It’s a wonderful place to live with so much beautiful countryside and interesting towns and villages. I have travelled very widely and would not live anywhere else.
I know I’m lucky having both my daughters and their families in this country….with the very dubious travel uncertainty I would hate to have to rely on air travel to see them.
Even though we see each other regularly DH and I rent a large house in a wild beautiful place and we all stay there every year.
I feel very lucky but relationships have to be worked at. Always best to have a good discussion about all the options!
There’s a social thing you should consider. Long-term expats are used to living in an environment where most of their circle of acquaintances are of a similar class, level of education and income as they are, and there’s a more limited range of ages. Children are all educated at local ‘British’ Schools or go to boarding school, so all mix with similar expat kids. It’s not just the weather and amenities that are attractive, it’s the social milieu that you are part of.
That will never be the same back in the UK. Even in a small village community, there is much more diversity of class, education, income, age and status. It can be infinitely more interesting and ‘real’ than the expat bubble, but it requires a level of humility and effort to integrate into what is, for the returning long-term expat, effectively a foreign culture.
Jaye complained that ‘people here have a very different way of life and don't want to hear about the great times we had living abroad!’ As an ex-expat and a child of expats, I can say with confidence that one guaranteed way to bore the pants off people is to drop ‘When we lived in the Gulf/ Africa/ the Far East …’ into every conversation. It just isn’t that interesting to most people, and most expats don’t get that, so they get a bit of a reputation as snobbish bores quite quickly. However, if you retire to, say, Paphos, where there are a lot of expat retirees, the expat lifestyle continues until you are too old, frail or dotty to enjoy it. Many Spanish destinations are more focused on UK based folks with second homes, so you won’t necessarily get the expat vibe there.
What a lot of interesting stories there are here. I am sure that OP will find some helpful nuggets among them.
OP's daughter lives in the UK, so I think she will have a good idea of the issues we face and how we are dealing with them. For me, there is no choice - this is where I belong, and I have to do my best to make it a good place to live.
We moved to Spain before Brexit to ensure our rights would be continued eg free healthcare, pension paid over here and so on.
Since the pandemic has stopped us being able to travel, I have missed my family more and am determined to go back next year for a visit come what may. But, am not sure I could see myself ever going back to live in the UK unless something happened to my husband and I was left alone.
I have found making friends over here is so much easier if you are prepared to get out there and join different groups. Remember, everyone is basically in the same boat, far away from families so we depend on each other for that support. In the UK, because we had always moved around, I found it quite difficult to make true friends as most people still had their childhood friends nearby and it can be near impossible to infiltrate those kind of long term relationships.
As some have suggested, move back to your UK home, making it quite clear to your son & daughter it may not be a permanent move, give yourself a good 12 months to try it, then if it doesn’t suit, try another country.
Yes, it might be sensible to think about the future, but don’t waste the life you have got by worrying about ‘what if’s’. You could have fantastic 5-10 years or so, or a miserable as hell 20 years left ( this is just an example), no one knows what’s round the corner, so live the best life you can, while you can!
Friends bought a house in the Cotswolds but a flat in London, everyone wants to stay in one or the other.
My husband took early retirement because of deafness at 57. We let the bungalow and caravanned round Europe for ten years hoping to eventually buy a house in France. We took occasional trips back to U.K. and family joined us for holidays. Unfortunately my husband died suddenly of a heart attack at the age of 67..
I spent the next two years in Spain in winter and summer in U.K. before returning to our bungalow where I have been alone for the past thirty three years. It was a good thing we kept the bungalow.
You can make all sorts of plans but they don’t always work out.
Retire somewhere that you want to be. I have countless friends who moved to be nearer grand children, children, siblings etc. Then the grandchildren grew up and didn't visit, children moved for careers or marriages broke up, siblings fell out, parents died. Go where you will be happy and can make a life and let them all visit you.
We have been involved in the care of six elderly relatives, Mothers x2 , Fathers x 2, Step Mother and Step father. None of them acknowledged or prepared for their old age. I have no idea how they thought they would not end up old/ possibly incapable , but it comes to us all.
Their selfishness resulted in us, when we had 3 children and full time jobs, travelling hundreds of miles to garden, clean, arrange care, take them to hospital, respond to emergency calls, and eventually take on their paperwork. I once drove from the North at night, to the South to respond to my MIL suddenly being admitted to hospital.
When they eventually died ( we still have a 96 year old living) we were left to clear up the contents of houses and years of their collecting and hanging on to every button and bits of string for decades.
We ourselves are ageing and really the thought of clearing the last house up, fills me with dread. My FIL refused to discuss the future at all, when he could. He would not entertain us clearing the barns and chicken houses when we were fitter..( He is a ex Farmer in a rotting farmhouse, surrounded by many sheds and outhouses.) He lets his land, or I should say, we organise the letting out of his land.
So to the original post I would say be realistic. It would be easier to live close by to your daughter, as the possibility of travelling long haul as your age will become less likely. It will also help one of them to be on hand to help if you need it. You can still go on lovely holidays when you are able, without the responsibility of owning bricks and mortar. You can easily hire a long let in Europe.
You need to acquire less stuff, not more. Looking after two houses and travelling from country to country is very tiring. I have friends who are doing it now, and they spend their time gardening and cleaning in one house then…travelling back to the other one and cleaning and gardening. there. They are in their 70’s and not really all that well.
Spain’s inheritance laws are not at all the same as England, Neither are those of France.
I have friends who say that they are going to let their children clean up after them when they are dead….it’s extremely selfish.
We have downsized, from our six bed period home and now live near a daughter ( as my DILs have Mother’s) divested ourselves of surplus belongings and sorted our paperwork out.
We are still having fun, visit the other children and can afford to have holidays anywhere.
I was concerned about that Dinahmo but GG hasn't come back.
Not about post (but wish you good luck) but about DD DIL etc: what do these mean? Cheers.
JillEH
Not about post (but wish you good luck) but about DD DIL etc: what do these mean? Cheers.
Scroll to the top of the page and click on the link for ‘acronyms’.
I would not like to be having to make your decision!
But I would just like to say I have been a very hands on grandma to my little grandson and it has been a most fulfilling and joyful experience. He's soon to be 6 and as someone else said he will probably tire of spending a lot of time with us grandparents as he gets older but I feel so privileged to have been able to spend these first years of his life so close to him. So if I were you I would maybe spend some time close to your existing grandchildren, maybe in rented property or somewhere that will be easy to sell in the future, and have holidays in the UK. Then if you do get grandchildren in the UK in the future up sticks and move back to the UK to spend time being close to the new grandchildren whilst they are small and go back to holiday with your other older grandchildren.
That way you can have time being close to all members of your family and get to be hands on grandparents for a lot of time.
Good luck trying to decide.
We are full time in France at the moment but while we had a number of friends for many years who were about a similar age etc they are no longer here - some have died but others have moved to either the U.K. - one to a nursing home or back to their native country. We live very much in the sticks and have no neighbours near enough to walk to easily. Over the last six or so years we have both been very ill but luckily recovered. The French health system is wonderful and when I was diagnosed with cancer my treatment started very quickly. Although we are fully in the health service here ( paid for by the NHS - but that may change with Brexit) and also have a top up mutuelle - the health service here is only 70% of the cost - serious ailments such as cancer or heart problems are covered 100% by the state. I had a two hour journey to go to my chemo sessions and a taxi ambulance was provided.
However we are now talking about returning to U.K. as we are both 80 and our children worry about us. In many ways both of us would like to remain here - some Brits have both their parents and their children living here and how I would love to be one of them. Both of us being so ill has given us a wake up call really.
For the OP I would certainly try being back in U.K. for a while - you have a base there already and you could have time to reflect on what you want to do.
If you are a U.K. pensioner you are allowed access to NHS treatment all the time so there would not be a problem. If you wish to add to your State pension payments which may be missing due to working abroad you can pay a certain number of years back and make class two payments going forward to increase any pension entitlement.
Not sure that we will buy a house back in U.K. because of hassle but would be able to pay rent from our pensions - still thinking about that part.
PS - the older grandchildren have started having their own families so little ones to cuddle again!
Cheers geekesse.
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