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Retirement Dilemma

(118 Posts)
Nansnet Mon 05-Jul-21 05:45:16

Sorry, long post!

DH and I have been discussing what to do when he eventually retires. Although it's not about to happen just yet, we do need to start making plans, as we currently live overseas. We need to decide where we're going to live as it will take time to find the right location/property. We've been having discussions about this for a very long time, so we certainly won't be rushing into anything without having already given it lots of thought and research. We've often gone around in circles, favouring one place over another, then changing our minds again a few months later! However, the time has now come when we do need to make some decisions.

Being long-time expats, we've always imagined that we'd eventually set down roots overseas, somewhere warm, where all the family can come to visit. However, as we're getting older, we wouldn't totally rule out returning to the UK (we do still have our house there, although we'd probably sell it and buy in another location). But, DH has some concerns about returning, as he's worried that we wouldn't be able to settle there, or we wouldn't 'fit in' after being away for so long.

We have a DD living in the UK with her partner, and I have no doubt they will get married, and hope to have children in the not too distant future. My DS & DiL live in another country, with our two young GDs, who (before Covid!) we used to visit regularly as they are only a short flight away from us.

Now, the dilemma! We are a very close family, and we have a great relationship with both our DD and DS, and their respective partners. BUT, geographically, we can't be close to all of them. I know that DD would love for us to return to the UK, and she's always said she wants us to be 'hands-on' grandparents if/when she has children, which is something I've always wanted to be in the position to do. Plus, I miss her terribly! However, if we relocated back to the UK, I can foresee that DS & his family probably wouldn't be too enthralled with the prospect of spending a lot of money on long-haul flights to the UK, to spend their 'holidays' with us in an average home, with dreary weather most of the time, and I wouldn't blame them!

However, if we relocated to say, Spain, for example, we'd be able to afford a house large enough to accommodate all of our family, with a pool, not far from the sea/beaches, etc., and I know that DS and his family would enjoy many long school holidays with us (they are both teachers). It would also be just a short flight to/from the UK for my DD & her partner to visit, and for us to visit them. But, of course, we'd never have that properly close relationship, or 'hands-on' grandparenting if she has children.

On one hand, my heart is telling me it would be better to be properly close to at least one of our children, and if we return to the UK we would be close to our DD, and also fulfil her wish, and mine, of one day being close to any potential GC she may give us. But this would mean we wouldn't see as much of our DS and his family, and it would kill me not to see our little GDs growing up.

On the other hand, my head is telling me to buy a home elsewhere, where all the family could enjoy regular holidays/visits. But that would mean we wouldn't be properly 'close' to either our DD or DS, and my husband & I would be on our own for the majority of the time in another country. That doesn't bother me, per se, as we are used to living overseas, and enjoy different cultures/exploring, and we have no problem making friends, etc.

What I am worried about is, if we were to relocate to Spain, would we live to regret not having that properly close relationship to at least one of our children? Or, should we consider a return to the UK to be close to our DD, but at the cost of seeing less of our DS and his family? Or, do we relocate to a place where both DD, and DS, can enjoy visits/holidays, but obviously not as often as we'd like to see them all, and we'll miss out on the closeness, and 'hands-on' grandparenting?

Retirement is something my DH and I have looked forward to for a long time, but right now I'm having sleepless nights about it all, and I feel in such a quandary about what to do!

What do other retirees think? Has anyone here been in a similar situation, and had to make decisions about what to do? What decisions did you make, and were they the right ones for you? Any advice or opinions will be greatly appreciated.

Nansnet Wed 07-Jul-21 06:45:46

Wow! I wasn't expecting quite so many responses, but thank you all! It's very interesting, and helpful, to read other people's different views, and suggestions, based on various circumstances.

Many of the scenarios mentioned have already been swirling around in my head (mostly at night, when I'm in bed!). But a lot of what's been said really has helped me to put some things into perspective. I do realise that we need to decide what's going to be important to us, and make us happy during retirement, rather than putting other people's wishes first.

It's impossible to plan for every eventuality, but as long as we are aware what could potentially happen in the future, and discuss what we would do in the worst case scenario, then I think we need to do whatever is going to make us both happy at the time we retire, and not worry too much, yet, about what may happen in the future. Yes, one of us could become ill/pass away, soon after making the move, leaving the other to cope alone. This is something we have had to consider for many years as expats. But, we could also potentially have 10, 20, 30 good years ahead of us! Who knows?!

Whatever we decide, we have to hope it's the right decision, but if it turns out to be the wrong one, although it would be a real hassle, I guess we could always move again!

As the saying goes, 'live for today, because tomorrow is never promised' ...

frenchie3 Wed 07-Jul-21 09:30:57

After many years working abroad, we retired and decided to move to France. We left 2 daughters in the UK, one in Aberdeen with 2 children and the other in the NE of England. After 3 years and second daughter emigrated to Australia and has since married and had 3 children. Both have visited us in France and likewise, we have visited them. We are very happy with our choice, but it all boils down to what you want to do. We have been here 17 years and still love the lifestyle and the weather.

Dinahmo Wed 07-Jul-21 15:36:01

About 20 years ago I knew an elderly gentleman whose only daughter, together with her OH had bought a barge on which they were traveling the European canals. He was well into his 80s, a widower but feisty for his age. His only GC lived in Australia. He had no problem with her moving to mainland Europe because, as he and she said, she could get to him more quickly by plane than she could be driving. This was pre covid of course.

annifrance Thu 08-Jul-21 14:01:54

There's an awful lot of talk about expat communities as if they never mix with the nationals, or other nationalities. What's the point of living abroad if you don't make a massive effort to integrate.

We have friends that are English and French, for the most part prefer to be with French. We have other friends of other nationalities. In fact we go to great lengths not to mix with British ex pat cliques! At one of our BBQs we had French, Spanish, Dutch, Polish, Romanian and Irish. Part of the joy of living abroad and so much more interesting.

Nannarose Thu 08-Jul-21 14:30:24

Welshwife - I am not sure what you mean by 'if you are a UK pensioner you are allowed access to NHS treatment all the time'.
If you mean whilst living abroad, then that varies with reciprocal agreements in different countries. If you mean in the UK, then I understand that people not normally resident here are only entitled if they are covered under reciprocal agreements, or if they fall into certain categories. I think these are things like people receiving war pensions from the UK government, or who were paying into the UK system because they were employees of the FCO, British Council etc.

Someone may be along who knows more, but I think that just receiving a UK pension doesn't entitle someone resident abroad to return for treatment.
Happy to be corrected, but as folk get information from here, I wanted to flag it up.

theworriedwell Thu 08-Jul-21 15:17:26

I have GC round the corner and GC 200 miles away. I love them all, the ones who lives 200 miles away come and stay but there is no denying the relationship is different. The ones who can just decide to stop off after school, decide to stay and have dinner etc feel almost like my children and the others feel like GC,

I broke my ankle on Tuesday, one GC has just arrived and is making me tea and decided if they should cut the grass today or tomorrow. In this sort of situation having them close is priceless. Similarly when they have an accident or feel ill at school it is me that gets the phone call to pick them up as parents are working.

I can see the attraction of the big house in Spain but I wouldn't change my relationship with the local GC for the world.

theworriedwell Thu 08-Jul-21 15:23:01

Dinahmo

About 20 years ago I knew an elderly gentleman whose only daughter, together with her OH had bought a barge on which they were traveling the European canals. He was well into his 80s, a widower but feisty for his age. His only GC lived in Australia. He had no problem with her moving to mainland Europe because, as he and she said, she could get to him more quickly by plane than she could be driving. This was pre covid of course.

Well if she had a plane standing by but for most of us it would involve booking a flight which could be hours or days away, travelling to the airport before the flight for check in and then travelling when you get off the plane. Where would she be driving from and to for it to take longer than that?

Obviously she is entitled to move abroad but the sound bite doesn't make sense to me. One of my siblings was sitting on a plane when my mother died. They got here as fast as they could but it wasn't fast enough. I did a 200 mile drive and had time with her before she died.

Nansnet Fri 09-Jul-21 03:35:00

annifrance

There's an awful lot of talk about expat communities as if they never mix with the nationals, or other nationalities. What's the point of living abroad if you don't make a massive effort to integrate.

We have friends that are English and French, for the most part prefer to be with French. We have other friends of other nationalities. In fact we go to great lengths not to mix with British ex pat cliques! At one of our BBQs we had French, Spanish, Dutch, Polish, Romanian and Irish. Part of the joy of living abroad and so much more interesting.

annifrance, I couldn't agree more! Having been expats since the mid 90s, we have friends from UK, France, Argentina, Germany, Spain, Italy, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Philippines, India, Australia, New Zealand, etc. I guess some people's perceptions of British expats are that we all just congregate together in our own little communities, like expat retirees in/around Benidorm/Marbella. When, in reality, the majority of us are far more adventurous, and like to integrate with the locals, and those from elsewhere.

BlueSky Fri 09-Jul-21 08:45:45

Well said Mumofmadboys! Don’t forget the possibility of one of you being left. I don’t want to sound negative but it’s different living abroad with your partner or on your own. Good luck Nansnet!

GagaJo Fri 09-Jul-21 08:52:31

I've worked mostly overseas for 9 years now but have returned to the UK because I think the long term effect of Covid will be less easy/cheap access to travel. That would affect my decision making, if I were you.

Dinahmo Fri 09-Jul-21 13:51:29

theworriedwell This was an agreement between father and daughter. It was he who said that it would be quicker by plane. I doubt whether she had a car since they were on canal barge, moving about. I believe you can get from France, across Holland and into Germany on the canal system.

I don't know where you live and I guess in some parts of the country you could do 200 miles in 3 hours. However, if you live on one side of London and need to get to the other side it can take much longer. And you can sit for hours without moving on the M25 so that doesn't help.

Dinahmo Fri 09-Jul-21 13:53:23

For anyone that's interested Which has a good guide to catching up on State pension contributions. I found it online.

Nansnet Fri 09-Jul-21 16:48:41

BlueSky

Well said Mumofmadboys! Don’t forget the possibility of one of you being left. I don’t want to sound negative but it’s different living abroad with your partner or on your own. Good luck Nansnet!

BlueSky I'm totally aware of that. It's not just a possibility, it's an actual fact that, one day, one of us will be left on our own, and that's what I worry about! Wherever we end up, one of us is going to be left alone. We may end up in Spain, with several friends, or back in the UK with our DD not too far away, but she me be busy with her own life. We have lots to consider ...

theworriedwell Fri 09-Jul-21 21:07:19

Dinahmo

theworriedwell This was an agreement between father and daughter. It was he who said that it would be quicker by plane. I doubt whether she had a car since they were on canal barge, moving about. I believe you can get from France, across Holland and into Germany on the canal system.

I don't know where you live and I guess in some parts of the country you could do 200 miles in 3 hours. However, if you live on one side of London and need to get to the other side it can take much longer. And you can sit for hours without moving on the M25 so that doesn't help.

The actual flight might be quicker than driving but I don't believe the whole organising, booking, getting to and from airport would be quicker. It is probably a comforting thing to say but it really isn't realistic unless you might be going from Lands End to John O'Groats but I just checked that and apparently you can do that in 13 hrs, I don't suppose they have included toilet and food breaks in that.

You can definitely wait hours for a plane not to mention getting to the airport an hour or two before take off. As I say it might be a comforting thing to say but I don't believe it is true.

Cp43 Sat 10-Jul-21 18:19:06

If you’re only in your fifties thats hardly old age. You’ve got years of adventure ahead yet. Rent out your uk house if you need the income and rent (dont buy) in Spain or wherever.

Welshwife Sat 10-Jul-21 18:51:34

NannaRose if you are in receipt of A U.K. normal Old Age pension you obtain an S1 which entitles you to join the French Health Service and U.K. pays France for you. You obtain your EHIC card from the U.K. too. You can choose to have any treatment in the U.K. or you can have it in France.
This may well be a bilateral agreement between the two countries.
There is also an agreement between the two countries about income tax (Double Taxation Treaty Agreement) and if you fill in the appropriate forms you are sure of only paying income tax on your income once - we have a Govt pension which is taxed in U.K. at source - this is declared in France but not taxed and our normal pensions which are taxed in France along with interest etc but they are not taxed in U.K.

NanKate Sat 10-Jul-21 21:30:16

Just a couple of thoughts - the weather isn’t dreary here in the South East. We are off on hols at the end of the week and the long range forecast for the New Forest is wall to wall sunshine. ?

Our friends moved to Spain, about 10 years ago, my concern is what will happen when one of them dies.