Granny offers help, then holds it over us

* Norah* the difference between the OP and us, is that we have been DILs and MILs. We are hearing one side, and yes of course we have to respond, depending on what we read.
But what she has written, does exhibit a degree of irritation with her MIL.
There is tension between herself and her MIL. She also presents herself in a good light, as this generous person who allows her MIL to look after her Grandchildren, when it’s not necessary.
Those were the clues that made me consider that the OP could look at her own behaviour and motivation for posting, and her relationship with her MIL. I don’t think she likes her Mil much and as she can’t change her, she could change herself.

She's needy. Why not be as effusive as she likes?

SylviaPlathssister

* Norah* the difference between the OP and us, is that we have been DILs and MILs. We are hearing one side, and yes of course we have to respond, depending on what we read.
But what she has written, does exhibit a degree of irritation with her MIL.
There is tension between herself and her MIL. She also presents herself in a good light, as this generous person who allows her MIL to look after her Grandchildren, when it’s not necessary.
Those were the clues that made me consider that the OP could look at her own behaviour and motivation for posting, and her relationship with her MIL. I don’t think she likes her Mil much and as she can’t change her, she could change herself.

But the DIL is not asking for this obviously excessive time the MIL pushes for. DIL is already accommodating a need she doesn’t have—solely to please her MIL. If the MIL is annoyed, she is a grown woman who should be able to maturely express what her issues are without resorting obnoxious behavior after she pushes for contact. Her MIL doesn’t sound likable person from what the OP describes, and I personally wouldn’t take on such behavior. You don’t suddenly get a free pass to become obnoxious and rude when you become a grandparent. And then people wonder why there is so much friction between generations. It’s this kind of self-centered “when I get older the world must cater to me regardless of how badly I behave” attitude that may be the root cause of our generational issues. I have my first grandchild on the way; a mother of two sons. My behavior with my DILs would never mirror so much of what I read here. Perhaps that’s why there is little friction in the relationships. I don’t fashion myself a dictatorial matriarchal figure to whom everything is owed. I find the sexist overtones here of telling a woman that she should be responsible for another adult’s feelings, cater to this other adult and disregard her own feelings complete nonsense. The OP doesn’t have to be responsible for her MIL’s bad behavior, and I wonder if half of you would give this “advice” to men.

Limcha nailed it

Limcha,wait til you're excluded at every twist and turn by your dil and her mother after you've been nothing but kind to them ,they just want my one and only grandchild to themselves,and couldn't care less about my feelings of hurt.it may not happen to you but it may ,you don't know ,as yet .

Limcha "But the DIL is not asking for this obviously excessive time the MIL pushes for. DIL is already accommodating a need she doesn’t have—

solely to please her MIL."

Who offers to have excess time with GC?

OP mil may need hobbies, friends, time occupiers.

Camille333

Limcha,wait til you're excluded at every twist and turn by your dil and her mother after you've been nothing but kind to them ,they just want my one and only grandchild to themselves,and couldn't care less about my feelings of hurt.it may not happen to you but it may ,you don't know ,as yet .

I’m sorry you feel that way, but I personally choose to self-reflect first and foremost before embracing a sense of victimhood when I have problems in any relationship.
Are your expectations reasonable? I wouldn’t expect my DILs to treat me equally with their mothers. Do you compare constantly and complain about what’s “fair”? I expect my DILs to spend more time with their own mothers. I’ve zero interest in becoming a competitive granny either. I won’t be measuring the amount of time the baby spends with us vs her parents. I am a quality over quantity individual. Took the same approach with the weddings of both boys and had a fabulous time each time. Some people make life harder than it needs to be, and apparently it doesn’t stop when one gets older. I am secure enough to not demand praise or constant reassurance of my importance. I thought the whole point of raising them up was so that they could stop being pains in the behind and we coupd pass them on to the wives ? Why demand so much to further solidify enmeshment?

"I really don't want to put you out today - I can manage, thank you - but I'll take a rain cheque." Then, choose a time that is oinconvenient for her, and play it by ear. Otherwise, marrk my words, in a few years she'll be going around saying she brought him up for you, because you were always otherwise occupied.

Sorry to repeat myself, but it's so horrible to see when some posters are getting off on trying to get the OP to be unkind to her MIL. It's not necessary. Don't be goaded by the sad sacks into creating a war with her. I accept she's needy, a bit sad, has not enough going on in her life maybe, but that doesn't mean you have to be cruel to her. As I suggested, send your husband round to her house to collect your son when you want him back. Let him give her a hug and say thank you. She brought him up to be the man you chose as your life partner, so give her a break.

Limcha

SylviaPlathssister

* Norah* the difference between the OP and us, is that we have been DILs and MILs. We are hearing one side, and yes of course we have to respond, depending on what we read.
But what she has written, does exhibit a degree of irritation with her MIL.
There is tension between herself and her MIL. She also presents herself in a good light, as this generous person who allows her MIL to look after her Grandchildren, when it’s not necessary.
Those were the clues that made me consider that the OP could look at her own behaviour and motivation for posting, and her relationship with her MIL. I don’t think she likes her Mil much and as she can’t change her, she could change herself.

But the DIL is not asking for this obviously excessive time the MIL pushes for. DIL is already accommodating a need she doesn’t have—solely to please her MIL. If the MIL is annoyed, she is a grown woman who should be able to maturely express what her issues are without resorting obnoxious behavior after she pushes for contact. Her MIL doesn’t sound likable person from what the OP describes, and I personally wouldn’t take on such behavior. You don’t suddenly get a free pass to become obnoxious and rude when you become a grandparent. And then people wonder why there is so much friction between generations. It’s this kind of self-centered “when I get older the world must cater to me regardless of how badly I behave” attitude that may be the root cause of our generational issues. I have my first grandchild on the way; a mother of two sons. My behavior with my DILs would never mirror so much of what I read here. Perhaps that’s why there is little friction in the relationships. I don’t fashion myself a dictatorial matriarchal figure to whom everything is owed. I find the sexist overtones here of telling a woman that she should be responsible for another adult’s feelings, cater to this other adult and disregard her own feelings complete nonsense. The OP doesn’t have to be responsible for her MIL’s bad behavior, and I wonder if half of you would give this “advice” to men.

Limcha, there are almost certainly just as many obnoxious and rude mothers around as there are rude and obnoxious grandmothers. Possibly a lot more, if Mumsnet is anything to go by. It's certainly not the preserve of the older generation.

I can't help wondering how on earth those mothers who already seem so inflexible, intolerant and lacking in empathy now will cope with family relationships when they themselves are the grandparents. The 'my way or the highway' attitude that many of them display certainly won't serve them well.

Before anyone jumps on me, I don't see the OP in that light, because it's quite clear from her posts that she would rather find a gentle way of changing mil's behaviour rather than just cut ties with her.
I don't think her mil is 'rude' or 'obnoxious' either. Not deliberately, anyway. She sounds very needy and hard work, and lacking the social awareness to realize what effect her behaviour has. I'm not sure what if anything can be done about it, but I certainly don't think that she deserves to be cut off completely as some posters would do.

By the way,Limcha, as this thread was specifically about a woman, or rather two women, I think that accusations of sexism here are out of place.

I'm not jumping on you, OldandProud. I agree that the OP seems reasonable, and she's dealing, as you say, with someone who is a bit needy, not someone who is even close to deserving estrangement.

Oldandproud,

You may not find that behavior rude and obnoxious, but it is. I would never behave that way toward anyone…because I have better manners than that.

If you don’t think it’s possible for women to be sexist against other women, you are mistaken. The suggestions to this young woman to simply be submissive and quietly grin and bare unnecessary, rude behavior are quite sexist in that they perpetuate the myth that a “good” insert any female role simply suffers silently. I find that offensive. Stereotypes about women and our roles are quite often perpetuated by other women. The OP can be kind and gently and still ensure that she doesn’t have to suffer unwanted abrasive behavior. There is nothing wrong with gently reminding others, and yes even a MIL, that being scolded or receiving snide remarks is not something one finds acceptable. The MIL is being treated by many here as being above reproach, and why? Because she is older than the OP? So standards for kind behavior between adults should be lowered if one’s age is older than middle-aged? No. Life just doesn’t work that way. Treat people how you want to be treated. Your age is not a Golden Ticket to take your issues out on younger relatives.

The younger generation will cope just fine, as humankind has since our inception. Every generation gets up and arms about how “differently”, and therefore wrongly the new generation does things. In the end, everyone will be fine.

MissAdventure

I think I'd be ideal mother in law material.
I would never pester to babysit.

That made me laugh out loud. I never babysit.

I managed to slip under the radar until the oldest grandson was 4, then I was rumbled.

Limcha

Oldandproud,

You may not find that behavior rude and obnoxious, but it is. I would never behave that way toward anyone…because I have better manners than that.

If you don’t think it’s possible for women to be sexist against other women, you are mistaken. The suggestions to this young woman to simply be submissive and quietly grin and bare unnecessary, rude behavior are quite sexist in that they perpetuate the myth that a “good” insert any female role simply suffers silently. I find that offensive. Stereotypes about women and our roles are quite often perpetuated by other women. The OP can be kind and gently and still ensure that she doesn’t have to suffer unwanted abrasive behavior. There is nothing wrong with gently reminding others, and yes even a MIL, that being scolded or receiving snide remarks is not something one finds acceptable. The MIL is being treated by many here as being above reproach, and why? Because she is older than the OP? So standards for kind behavior between adults should be lowered if one’s age is older than middle-aged? No. Life just doesn’t work that way. Treat people how you want to be treated. Your age is not a Golden Ticket to take your issues out on younger relatives.

The younger generation will cope just fine, as humankind has since our inception. Every generation gets up and arms about how “differently”, and therefore wrongly the new generation does things. In the end, everyone will be fine.

I did not say that it is not possible for women to be sexism against other women. I said that see no evidence whatsoever of that on this thread. Why on earth are you assuming that any of us would be giving different advice to a man? That assumption is as ridiculous as it is incorrect.

I haven't seen anyone say the MiL is above reproach, either. I think that we have been unanimous in our agreement that her behaviour is not good. It is only our suggestions of how best to handle it that vary, which is hardly surprising.

Anyway, that's me out on this topic now, as we are going round in circles.

Oldandproud "I certainly don't think that she deserves to be cut off completely as some posters would do."

Who said she needs to be CO, I believe people said the time between intrusions needed to be lengthened.

I think once a month would be plenty as they invite her out weekly. Up to maybe a year to get her used to backing down.

OldamdProud,

As I said, if you don’t see the parallels here between suggestions that this young woman keep quiet and suffer her MIL’s bad behavior silently and the sexist view that women should just be quiet and not rock the boat despite how they feel, I don’t know what to tell you. You can’t make a person see what they willfully ignore.

The young woman has a right to spend less time appeasing her MIL’s babysitting “offers”. No one suggested keeping the child away from the grandmother that I am aware of. The OP already makes time for weekly visits, so there is absolutely nothing wrong with not accommodating the additional unnecessary requests. All those comparing the OP to any “selfish” or demanding DIL are wrong and off base. Frankly, there are plenty of examples right here in these comments of why you’ve got to do what you’ve got to do to keep peace in your life. A DIL will be dragged through the mud no matter what because some people feel the youth should happily be their pin cushions, shut up and take their outdated advice, and just let you do whatever you please with their children. As I said, I look forward to being the opposite type of grandmother.

Limcha you are not yet a granny, you haven't been treated like an outsider to your son's son.in fact you know nothing about being a granny and the love for the grandchild.

SylviaPlathssister

Mamma2022 as a MIL, mother, DIL, etc, I recognise your problem as a DIL/ MIL tension issue. You are using the ‘Royal We,’ but where is your husband is all this? I bet he wants you to just suck it up.
But in a few years, your children will not need a babysitter, and the situation will be resolved anyway. Surely her usefulness versus your irritation with her, can be weighed up, and you could just accept her help in the way she wants/ needs to offer it.
Both your Mil and you have issues, IMO.
We look after one of my daughters children as necessary, as we live close by. My daughters can tell me straight what they wants or don’t want., but it’s not such a easy relationship with my DILs .
I think you should just tolerate her behaviour and try and be a bit more easy going, I think all DILs /MiLs irritate one another from time to time. I bet she thinks you are annoying as well.

Yes. Youre correct. OP Should just suck it up and be a door mat for her husbands mother.

This is the silliest advice.

Camille333

Limcha,wait til you're excluded at every twist and turn by your dil and her mother after you've been nothing but kind to them ,they just want my one and only grandchild to themselves,and couldn't care less about my feelings of hurt.it may not happen to you but it may ,you don't know ,as yet .

you know that that child doesnt belong to you, dont you?

If you say things like that I can well understand why your DIL doesnt go to you first.

Camille333

Limcha you are not yet a granny, you haven't been treated like an outsider to your son's son.in fact you know nothing about being a granny and the love for the grandchild.

I know that even as a grandmother I will not place all my hopes of fulfillment in my adult sons and their families.

I know that my happiness is not the responsibility of others, nor is my self-worth.

I know I am not a child who should be jealous because my loved ones invest time and interest in other loved ones.

I know that I am not so insecure as to compare my relationships with my DILs to their relationships with their mothers.

I know I if I were to adopt your attitude, there will be problems in my family for sure. I prefer cohesion.

I may not yet know what it is to be a granny, but I know a rationale human being doesn’t become a grandparent and use it as an excuse to go bonkers. Not sure what your overall point was, but based on your posts to me, I am sure your DIL would have a different perspective on your relationship.

Difficult.

Is she hinting that looking after him is too much for her? I'd decline any other offers as that's how I'd take from those comments and the fact she's doing you a favour looking after him, rather than a lovely day doing fun stuff.

It shouldn't be a chore imo.

If she asks, 'Are you sure? If you want to spend a few hours with him that's lovely, but if it gets a bit much again just let me know.'

Done.

Camille333

It's so upsetting when mother in law's are perceived as outsiders whereas maternal grannies are treated as family.Mother in law's are also the child's family the same but they are treated differently and excluded .It's not right and it's not fair.I have one grandchild and I have to have an appointment to see him and I can't even get that.,whereas the other grandmother sees him every day .Its sad for the grandchild too ,there's little hope of bonding and it's heartbreaking ,but who cares when I cry quietly to myself ,noone.

I’m terribly sorry about your predicament, but I’m not sure what it has to do with this post. My mother lives hours away. My mother in law has infinitely more time with my child than my mother. We aren’t excluding her. Quite the contrary.

happycatholicwife1

Why is this comment here and not on Mumsnet?

I was hoping for some GMs points of view. I already know what the DILs’ responses would be and I don’t particularly care of Mumsnet. Just trying to gain some perspective.

Doodledog

Is your MIL like that about other things, or is it just over your son? My mum really wants to be thanked for everything, and of course we (my siblings and I) do that, but it’s never enough. If she buys an item of clothing as a present (for instance) I would say thank you at the time, but she would ask a while later if it fits nicely, or if it washed well, to get more thanks. Anything she does is spoilt by the constant reminders of how good to us she is, and we do thank her when she does them. Childcare was never an issue for us as my mum rarely looked after mine (she didn’t approve of working mothers).

I don’t know if it’s a generation thing, as there are a lot of posts on here about people wanting more thanks for presents, and comments that ‘we have been very generous with money’ before pointing out something that posters wish their children had done. Gifts of time or money seem very loaded sometimes, and whereas it is perfectly reasonable to expect a thank you, they can be spoilt by constant reminders of indebtedness.

Having said that, it’s annoying, but in the end, it’s just words, and if she’s made happy by your thanks, why not just thank her? Why not start a conversation (very chatty - not A Conversation) over a cup of tea and say that you’ve noticed that she gets tired after looking after your son, and that you don’t want her to feel under any obligation- stress that he loves her, but make it clear that the outings should be fun for both of them, and if they are tiring for her it’s fine if she rations them a bit?

You sound like you are a caring DIL, so you’ll probably find the right way to phrase it without hurting her. Good luck.

She is like this with many things. If she gives a gift, and I say “thank you! this is so generous,” she will come back with, “Well, yes. I’ve been VERY generous with you. I always am.” I just don’t know how to react to that. Im not sure how much more gratitude I can express. When we try to bring her gifts or food to show we are thinking of her, she often says thank you but pushes us to bring it back with us (wine, flowers, food, etc - and no, she doesn’t have any issues with alcohol, so it isn’t that). I’m just at a loss.