Shamima Begum has appeal rejected

That’s fine by me Quokka, but I wasn’t so rude as to say I couldn’t care less about yours. And my views are real, they don’t have to be inserted in inverted commas.

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

Dr Charlotte Proudman, - a British barrister and Cambridge academic.

“Shamima Begum was a British child when she was groomed and radicalised by fundamentalists; she was trafficked; and she suffered gravely under ISIS. She was a child bride — and she watched her three children die. She is a British citizen and she should be brought to justice here.”

I agree with this.

I agree she should be returned to the U.K. to face trial.

I struggle with groomed & trafficked

She was/is an intelligent Muslim girl, who could not fail to have knowledge of Daesh/ISIS.

She was not drugged or dragged onto the plane, she went willingly.

I agree she should be returned to the U.K. to face trial.

I think so, too.

I also struggle with the groomed and trafficked belief. Maybe 'influenced'? I'm trying to remember my 15 year-old self. All I can remember is that I was a tad gullible when I donned my specially-purchased red scarf and caught the tube to London to take part in a demonstration with my 'comrades' against 'the establishment'... until I saw that quite a few were behaving like a pack of savages and hastily caught another tube back home again...
If I'd had the benefit of the internet back then in the late 50s, I might have understood a little more about my 'cause'. I wasn't groomed, just caught up with the glamour of the 'anti-establishment' brigade. The difference is, I had the freedom to just turn tail and run back home again, once SB arrived at her destination, it was too late. And from then onward, she was trafficked. But not initially. And she did have the benefit of the internet.

I'm in two minds. But - I'm not in possession of all the information and facts that surround this case and this woman.

The public's safety is paramount. There are still, it seems, too many loose cannons who are (prior to another atrocity) "known to the police".

She was 15 when she left this country. Under the age of consent. I feel that she should be rehabilitated and helped to live a useful, productive life. Other countries seem to manage it, so why not the UK?

Daisymae

She was 15 when she left this country. Under the age of consent. I feel that she should be rehabilitated and helped to live a useful, productive life. Other countries seem to manage it, so why not the UK?

With the information I have I agree she should come back.

However, I am not party to the information that the Secret Services have so I have to bow to their superior knowledge and experience.

I've just listened to the BBC podcast I'm Not a Monster Series 2 Shamima Begum. Her life has been a series of disasters. So many dead children, so much disruption. I don't suppose it was what she imagined it would be.
It's well worth a listen

you a bit late!

Does anyone know what happened to SB’s husband ? I believe he was from the Netherlands. Surely SB would have taken on his citizenship as his Muslim wife.

It is not automatic and can take years. Why should she have done as she never intended to live there?

There are several other requirements that you’ll have to meet. These include:

Being at least 18 years of age
Speaking at least one of the three national languages, which you can prove by demonstrating your social integration
Being integrated into society by having either:
earned a degree or certificate
done at least 400 hours of professional training
taken an integration course
worked in Belgium uninterrupted for the past five years
Being economically integrated by having worked as either:
a paid worker or a public servant for at least 468 days during the last five years
a self-employed person who has made social security contributions for at least six quarters of the last five years
Proving that you are unable to work due to a disability or chronic illness or because you have reached pensionable age (65 in 2022)

If you cannot meet these requirements, you can also apply for citizenship after you’ve legally resided in Belgium for the past 10 years. In that case, you will need to demonstrate that:

You have knowledge of at least one of the three national languages
You are integrated into sociocultural or economic life

Citizenship by marriage to a Belgian national

Belgium does not automatically grant citizenship to people who get married to a Belgian citizen. Instead, they can become national by following the above residence procedure. The same conditions apply with one additional requirement: you’ll need to have cohabitated with your partner in Belgium for at least three years.

She has no ties to Belgium, her husband was Dutch.

MerylStreep

She has no ties to Belgium, her husband was Dutch.

Yes, he is from the Netherlands and is in prison in Syria, I believe.

Her husband talks in the podcast, he was in a Syrian prison at the time. He is Dutch.

She says he was abusive. He says he wasn't.

Ah sorry. Not much easier in Holland and they didn't accept double nationality until recently.

I doubt that the Netherlands would grant her nationality.

It is interesting because not long after they were married her husband was imprisoned by Isis. She spent 10 months on her own and had a miscarriage. He was released but they were isolated, as some thought he was a spy.

I agree with the decision.
She knew exactly what she was doing. No and, ifs or buts.

I think she is in Syria at the moment. If I was Syria I would put her on a plane fly her to Britain and tell Britain that she grew up in Britain she came from Britain she is your problem and you deal with it. Why should we dump our problems on the rest of the world.

Grandma29

I agree with the decision.
She knew exactly what she was doing. No and, ifs or buts.

So how different was she to other children who were groomed, and also 'knew exactly' what they were doing, and often for money.

Apart from the fact that she was only 15 the events she lived through are horrific. Did she know at that age exactly what she was getting herself into I very much doubt it.

She could also have been stopped at the Turkish border there is evidence that the man who smuggled her across was also acting as a spy for the Canadian government, but was smuggling women and children into Isis. Which makes me wonder if there are people who are still acting as double agents, and the real fear of the intelligence services is not the harm she presents to the British public, but the damage she could do to them. It's a murky world.

So how different was she to other children who were groomed, and also 'knew exactly' what they were doing, and often for money.

Shemima Begin was and is linked to a deadly terrorist organisation which continues to present a threat to this country.

Jackiest

I think she is in Syria at the moment. If I was Syria I would put her on a plane fly her to Britain and tell Britain that she grew up in Britain she came from Britain she is your problem and you deal with it. Why should we dump our problems on the rest of the world.

I think the detention camps are being run by the Kurds.

I have no idea why the Kurdish people have been left with these problems when they have already suffered so much themselves at the hands of Sadam Hussein, Assad, Iran and Turkey.

Difficult cases require the most careful judgment based on evidence. In this case the public does not have access to all the evidence but based on what is public on balance I agree with the decision.

Callistemon21

Jackiest

I think she is in Syria at the moment. If I was Syria I would put her on a plane fly her to Britain and tell Britain that she grew up in Britain she came from Britain she is your problem and you deal with it. Why should we dump our problems on the rest of the world.

I think the detention camps are being run by the Kurds.

I have no idea why the Kurdish people have been left with these problems when they have already suffered so much themselves at the hands of Sadam Hussein, Assad, Iran and Turkey.

I think the Kurds have been badly treated by everyone. Churchill authorised the use of poisoned gas against them in 1920. So much of the conflict in that area can be lain at the door of the UK and now we expect them to cope with people we think are a threat to the UK. Ironic really!

I think they are trying their best to run these camps with inadequate resources, people of all nationalities are there, refugees, known terrorists, just dumping grounds for people of many nations.

It's disgraceful, the nations involved need to sort this out.