I don't want to take Statins. Advice please.

buffyfly9

As the former practice manager mentioned on here, I can tell you that a GP practice is a BUSINESS. GP's are self employed contractors to the NHS and as such have to manage their budgets like any other type of business. It is target driven, drug companies offer special discounts for bulk purchases, yes, they take the GP's out to lunch,( including myself on lots of occasions) and yes, deals are done over the pudding course!! That is not to say that the GP's don't care for their patients or do a good job, we need them. Every time they write a prescription they get paid for the drug and they get paid for writing it. Big Pharma is everywhere, it's a group of doctors who sit down in an office in London and decide what the ideal blood pressure should be in the general population (it keeps going down, if you notice). Question everything you are told, do your own research and then and only then take the medical advice you are given.

Thank you *Buffyfly9” 👏

foxie and growstuff do you understand it yet?🤔 as I keep saying the Practice gets the money. Are you maybe imagining we are suggesting the GPs get little brown envelopes full of money? As Buffyfly9 says they are a business.

You can do your research as well as me.

drmalcolmkendrick.org/2022/04/25/evidence-based-medicine-it-was-a-good-idea/

buffyfly9

As the former practice manager mentioned on here, I can tell you that a GP practice is a BUSINESS. GP's are self employed contractors to the NHS and as such have to manage their budgets like any other type of business. It is target driven, drug companies offer special discounts for bulk purchases, yes, they take the GP's out to lunch,( including myself on lots of occasions) and yes, deals are done over the pudding course!! That is not to say that the GP's don't care for their patients or do a good job, we need them. Every time they write a prescription they get paid for the drug and they get paid for writing it. Big Pharma is everywhere, it's a group of doctors who sit down in an office in London and decide what the ideal blood pressure should be in the general population (it keeps going down, if you notice). Question everything you are told, do your own research and then and only then take the medical advice you are given.

This is absolute nonsense, below is the only bit of your post that I agree with, please provide evidence that GPs get paid by pharmaceutical companies every time they write a prescription. Pity you don't take your own advice.
"Question everything you are told, do your own research and then and only then take the medical advice you are given."

According to Kendrick:[23]

A high-fat diet has no impact on blood cholesterol levels.
High cholesterol levels do not cause or increase the risk of heart disease.
Statins do not protect against heart disease by lowing cholesterol levels.
The protection provided by statins is so small it is not worth bothering with.
Statins have many negative side effects including death and creation of deformed babies.
All medical experts should be ignored as they are paid large sums of money from statin manufacturers.
The only expert that should be listened to is Malcolm Kendrick.
Dr Malcolm Kendrick? Yup did a bit of research, he's an odd one isn't he? Seems a lot of people think he's a bit out of step with most other doctors. Can you cite some peer reviewed research that support any of his views?
In The Great Cholesterol Con (2008), he argues the above claims but fails to back this up with reliable scientific evidence. It has an irresponsible chapter titled "Eat whatever you like (Diet has nothing to do with heart disease)". Kendrick is not a dietician and lacks education in nutrition. The book makes the following arrogant statement in regard to the above claims:

I was put on them after a slight stroke, even though my cholesterol levels are low, and have not noticed any side effects at all. Nothing.

foxie48

buffyfly9

As the former practice manager mentioned on here, I can tell you that a GP practice is a BUSINESS. GP's are self employed contractors to the NHS and as such have to manage their budgets like any other type of business. It is target driven, drug companies offer special discounts for bulk purchases, yes, they take the GP's out to lunch,( including myself on lots of occasions) and yes, deals are done over the pudding course!! That is not to say that the GP's don't care for their patients or do a good job, we need them. Every time they write a prescription they get paid for the drug and they get paid for writing it. Big Pharma is everywhere, it's a group of doctors who sit down in an office in London and decide what the ideal blood pressure should be in the general population (it keeps going down, if you notice). Question everything you are told, do your own research and then and only then take the medical advice you are given.

This is absolute nonsense, below is the only bit of your post that I agree with, please provide evidence that GPs get paid by pharmaceutical companies every time they write a prescription. Pity you don't take your own advice.
"Question everything you are told, do your own research and then and only then take the medical advice you are given."

Yes, it is nonsense.

I admit to being swayed by Kendrick when I initially refused to take statins.

However, since then I have read dozens of research articles and many of his claims are just downright wrong.

He is partially right that high fat diets don't affect cholesterol levels. Since he wrote the book, there has been much research about the causes of high cholesterol. For example, it's known that high carb diets can have an effect.

There is irrefutable evidence that statins lower cholesterol levels and that high LDL and triglycerides cause some kinds of heart attacks and strokes - but not all. For example, cholesterol doesn't cause coronary episodes caused by atrial fibrillation.

Statins do offer significant protection, but they're not a magic wand and won't stop all strokes and heart attacks. That's the same as nearly every treatment. It's all about risk.

I'd like to see the evidence for death and deformed babies. It's not disputed that statins can cause side effects for some patients, so it's about balancing the side effects against the known benefits - again, the same for every single medicine.

And again, medical experts are not all paid huge sums of money by statin manufacturers.

After my last health check I was called in to discuss something about my blood results. Couldn’t tell me over the ‘phone. Scared the pants off me! It was to tell me that my cholesterol was LOW but I could still have statins if I wanted them.! Are GPS on commission from statin manufacturers ? I take Benecol - the little bottles . Quite nice.

Foxie48. Next time you go to your to your GP kindly ask him if he gets paid for writing a prescription. He may then direct you to the Prescription Pricing Authority. Where do you think your prescription goes when you hand it in to the chemist? How does a pharmacy get paid for dispensing the drug out of their stock rather than if you have it dispensed by your GP??? The pharmacy (Boots etc) sends the Prescription to the PPA and the GP gets paid for writing it. It's not me who needs to do any research, it's you.

I’m taking statins and they lowered my cholesterol levels dramatically I only wish I had taken them earlier otherwise I wouldn’t have had a stroke
Get on them straight away regardless of cost implications your health matters more.
I’m fortunate I only had to change them once,I listened too long at the negative reaction of others
The first prescription gave me a terrible runny nose but apart from that I’ve no longer got any side effects and living the life.

Good luck take charge of your own body

Grantanow

There's a lot of loony nonsense talked about statins. Millions of people take them every day and so do I with no ill effects whatsoever.

@Grantanow it is certainly not looney nonsense, when my husband was 60 he started to have aches and pains, he couldn't walk without the aid of 2 sticks, obviously he went to his GP who could find no reason for his lack of mobility and pain, it was only when I saw him take his Statins and read the bumph in the leaflet that I saw it might be the side effects of them he stopped taking them and the pains stopped within a week, a few years later a new GP wanted to put him back on them he refused he was referred to a Lipid Consultant to totally understood his reason for stopping them (obviously even some medical professionals believe the 'loony nonsense') my husband is now 74 and has no mobility problems at all.

And I wouldn't be so sure that millions take them without any problems either, I was at A Christmas lunch where everyone was over pension age, we were talking about them and one man said he got so fed up with his GP insisting that he had to take them and his aches and pains were due to old age, so he just gets his repeat prescription and flushes them down the loo, about 6 people at the lunch admitted to doing the same, I bet they are not the only ones either. I doubt very much if the NHS actually know how many people take them without side effects and neither do you.

tictacnana

After my last health check I was called in to discuss something about my blood results. Couldn’t tell me over the ‘phone. Scared the pants off me! It was to tell me that my cholesterol was LOW but I could still have statins if I wanted them.! Are GPS on commission from statin manufacturers ? I take Benecol - the little bottles . Quite nice.

No, they're not.

buffyfly9

Foxie48. Next time you go to your to your GP kindly ask him if he gets paid for writing a prescription. He may then direct you to the Prescription Pricing Authority. Where do you think your prescription goes when you hand it in to the chemist? How does a pharmacy get paid for dispensing the drug out of their stock rather than if you have it dispensed by your GP??? The pharmacy (Boots etc) sends the Prescription to the PPA and the GP gets paid for writing it. It's not me who needs to do any research, it's you.

Contractors (ie pharmacists) are paid for the number of prescriptions that they dispense. Each month they send their prescriptions to the NHS Business Services Authority (NHS BSA) who acts on behalf of the Department of Health and Social Care.

www.england.nhs.uk/contact-us/privacy-notice/how-we-use-your-information/our-services/primary-care-commissioning/#:~:text=Contractors%20are%20paid%20for%20the,by%20courier%20for%20paper%20documents.

If they can source medications from cheaper suppliers, they make more profit.

Chakotay

Grantanow

There's a lot of loony nonsense talked about statins. Millions of people take them every day and so do I with no ill effects whatsoever.

@Grantanow it is certainly not looney nonsense, when my husband was 60 he started to have aches and pains, he couldn't walk without the aid of 2 sticks, obviously he went to his GP who could find no reason for his lack of mobility and pain, it was only when I saw him take his Statins and read the bumph in the leaflet that I saw it might be the side effects of them he stopped taking them and the pains stopped within a week, a few years later a new GP wanted to put him back on them he refused he was referred to a Lipid Consultant to totally understood his reason for stopping them (obviously even some medical professionals believe the 'loony nonsense') my husband is now 74 and has no mobility problems at all.

And I wouldn't be so sure that millions take them without any problems either, I was at A Christmas lunch where everyone was over pension age, we were talking about them and one man said he got so fed up with his GP insisting that he had to take them and his aches and pains were due to old age, so he just gets his repeat prescription and flushes them down the loo, about 6 people at the lunch admitted to doing the same, I bet they are not the only ones either. I doubt very much if the NHS actually know how many people take them without side effects and neither do you.

So why don't these people report problems? Why are they wasting money by flushing the meds down the toilet?

Nobody is forcing anybody to take anything. If these people have a heart attack or stroke, it will be assumed they are taking their prescribed statins. Why don't they be honest, so that researchers have more accurate statistics?

No wonder some people think there's a waste problem in the NHS!

You are correct Growstuff, it's how contractors, (be it a Pharmacy or the GP) get paid for supplying medication to the general population. When a particular drug comes off licence it becomes available as a generic product and the price drops. It's why millions of patients were prescribed Simvastatin (a generic). It was cheap, therefore more profit for the GP who has to balance his drug budget. This particular drug was the cause of many of the problems that patients had when statins became the new "wonder drug".
It was prescribed to patients until one by one, they started to complain of muscle pain, brain fog etc. Articles started to appear in the press, patients who stopped them and requested an alternative (but more expensive) were given them as GP's realised that the side effects were serious. New statins started to come along which is why there are now different formulations. I find it interesting that there are several posters on here who are strident in their defence of statins and are getting quite worked up; to the point where I wonder if they have shares!
Of course patients should not continue to collect their medication, not take it or flush it down the loo but I can understand why they do, such is the pressure on GP's to medicate us all. Statins can be a life saver to some patients but not to all which is how this thread started.

Chakotay - why waste the nhs resources by collecting prescriptions then flushing the drugs down the toilet? What on earth prevents adults from a grown up discussion with their GP, no thanks I don’t want to take the drugs.

Also, flushing drugs down the toilet, means that those drugs then go into the sewage system. What if everyone did that? So irresponsible and a dreadful waste of NHS funds.

I'm not getting the slightest bit worked up about defending statins. We all own our own bodies and I don't care that much what other people do with theirs. I take statins and I will continue to do so. My body, my choice! I don't care what other people think. However, I do care about people who spread misinformation.

The only thing I'm cross about is people who think they know better than their GP and throw prescribed medications away. Apart from the fact it's a waste of money and polluting the sewage system, it's a waste of a precious GP appointment and I'm sure there are others who actually value the GP's opinion, who would jump at the chance of the appointment.

Iam64, I totally agree with you but it's quite difficult at the moment to get quality time with a GP in order to discuss things. In the surgery where I worked we used to take in, almost on a daily basis, large quantities of unused drugs that had been hoarded by the now deceased patient. Relatives staggered in with bin bags full of bottles of Duphalac and packs of drugs, hundreds of them which we then had to dispose of. Some we could send overseas to charities who worked in deprived countries that were crying out for pain medication etc. Then the powers that be decided it was a Health and Safety issue so surgeries had to stop doing it and that huge mountain of unused drugs had to be disposed of. The argument was that nobody could be sure if the medication was stored "properly" in the patients home environment. Try telling that to someone in Syria writhing in pain. Waste, it's what is decimating our NHS.

An elderly couple in our village got together when their respective spouses died. They continued to live separately though. When he passed away quite suddenly from cancer, she was horrified to find his spare room literally full to bursting with bags and bags of statins which he had been prescribed but never took. She discussed this with his adult children and they said he did not want to go against what his GP said …. That generation never questioned anything their doctor said.

I wonder how many of those "now deceased patients" would have lived a longer life if they had taken their medication as directed!
I'm not a shareholder in any drug company (as far as I know) but like Growstuff I dislike misinformation. This "doctors get paid for prescribing statins" rubbish pops up every time statins is mentioned in a thread and if I see it, I will challenge it because it is untrue.

growstuff

Chakotay

Grantanow

There's a lot of loony nonsense talked about statins. Millions of people take them every day and so do I with no ill effects whatsoever.

@Grantanow it is certainly not looney nonsense, when my husband was 60 he started to have aches and pains, he couldn't walk without the aid of 2 sticks, obviously he went to his GP who could find no reason for his lack of mobility and pain, it was only when I saw him take his Statins and read the bumph in the leaflet that I saw it might be the side effects of them he stopped taking them and the pains stopped within a week, a few years later a new GP wanted to put him back on them he refused he was referred to a Lipid Consultant to totally understood his reason for stopping them (obviously even some medical professionals believe the 'loony nonsense') my husband is now 74 and has no mobility problems at all.

And I wouldn't be so sure that millions take them without any problems either, I was at A Christmas lunch where everyone was over pension age, we were talking about them and one man said he got so fed up with his GP insisting that he had to take them and his aches and pains were due to old age, so he just gets his repeat prescription and flushes them down the loo, about 6 people at the lunch admitted to doing the same, I bet they are not the only ones either. I doubt very much if the NHS actually know how many people take them without side effects and neither do you.

So why don't these people report problems? Why are they wasting money by flushing the meds down the toilet?

Nobody is forcing anybody to take anything. If these people have a heart attack or stroke, it will be assumed they are taking their prescribed statins. Why don't they be honest, so that researchers have more accurate statistics?

No wonder some people think there's a waste problem in the NHS!

@growstuff did you actually READ my post I specifically mentioned that he had been to his GP who told him he had to take them and his aches and pains had nothing to do with taking them but due only to old age and nothing more reporting the problem did not help him as he was being ignored, and that is very common

So we have now established that GP Practices DO make huge incomes from treating people with “high” cholesterol including prescribing statins. We have seen in black and white how they are encouraged to maximise their income through QOF Points which translate into income for their practices. It’s all above in black and white. It’s not misinformation and it’s not “rubbish”.

We also know that GPs are paid per prescription issued. last time I looked they got just under £1 for each prescription. Can’t check now as am on way out.

There will always be people who won’t believe anything because they don’t want to, even if they see it in black and white.

How do they think these GP “businesses” make money? I was recently in a high street pharmacy and was offered a health check which I accepted. A few weeks later I was at my GPs for something else and she said I was due for a health check. I said I had had one and she was most put out that I didn’t have it at the surgery. She said “we could have had that income instead of them.”

A friend and I who started on Statins at the same time in our late 70s sat down and for our own amusement wrote down all our aches and pains and other problems before we started. This is very recent so we shall be checking if we notice anything before ascribing it to the statins. I have another friend who had a heart attack was prescribed statins but just stopped taking them, how will this play out if she is admitted with a further problem? I really think the Dr should be told but she treats it as if it is none of his business.
I am sorry your DH was ignored by the GP Chakotay he should have been offered an alternative.

Chakotay

Grantanow

There's a lot of loony nonsense talked about statins. Millions of people take them every day and so do I with no ill effects whatsoever.

@Grantanow it is certainly not looney nonsense, when my husband was 60 he started to have aches and pains, he couldn't walk without the aid of 2 sticks, obviously he went to his GP who could find no reason for his lack of mobility and pain, it was only when I saw him take his Statins and read the bumph in the leaflet that I saw it might be the side effects of them he stopped taking them and the pains stopped within a week, a few years later a new GP wanted to put him back on them he refused he was referred to a Lipid Consultant to totally understood his reason for stopping them (obviously even some medical professionals believe the 'loony nonsense') my husband is now 74 and has no mobility problems at all.

And I wouldn't be so sure that millions take them without any problems either, I was at A Christmas lunch where everyone was over pension age, we were talking about them and one man said he got so fed up with his GP insisting that he had to take them and his aches and pains were due to old age, so he just gets his repeat prescription and flushes them down the loo, about 6 people at the lunch admitted to doing the same, I bet they are not the only ones either. I doubt very much if the NHS actually know how many people take them without side effects and neither do you.

I fully believe that Chakotay I saw my Dad decline terribly within weeks of starting on statins. He became muddled, forgetful, aching joints, extreme tiredness etc. when just weeks before he did the crossword daily, played football with his grandchildren and led very busy life.

Lots of smugness from people who are very lucky to reach their 70s and have excellent health. I do sometimes get a sense of blame that I have lots of health conditions. Somehow it must be my fault that I have RA or osteoporosis or breast cancer or other things. perhaps I have an unhealthy diet or drink too much?
Actually no. I do all the right things. My breakfast for years has been plain oats and seeds so that's no miracle worker. I have never been overweight, don't smoke drink very little.
I was reluctant to take statins because of the many other drugs I take. I like to see an improvement in quality of life in return for taking a drug. I can't ditch the RA drugs because I would very quickly become unable to move around. As it is they put the disease completly in remisssion.

In the end because of my high risk I agreed to take a 10mg dose which has reduced my cholestrol to 3.