EHRC suggestion on toilet facilities

Rosie51

Luminance You answer my question (posted before yours) and I'll answer yours. Do you agree sex is determined at conception and is immutable? Therefore transwomen are men, will always be men and can never be biological women?

Is this some sort of initiation? What would happen should I agree or not agree exactly?

Is this some sort of initiation? What would happen should I agree or not agree exactly?

Weird!
Is that the sort of world you live in, Luminance, with initiation rites? Explains a lot.

It doesn’t exist on GN anyway.

Re Rosie51’s question;
Actually, by
not answering,
or feeling unable to answer,
or being unwilling to answer
such a basic question,
you will have answered, whether you post your answer or not.

What would happen if you answered?

You would clarify that you do agree that sex is determined at conception and is immutable? Therefore transwomen are men, will always be men and can never be biological women.
Or
You would clarify that you don’t agree that sex is determined at conception and is immutable.
Therefore you don’t agree that transwomen are not women, will always be men and can never be biological women.

What do you expect to happen?

What do you want to happen?

What might happen is that the increasingly garbled word salad posts might stop.

As it is, trying to find ‘solutions’ over and above the very simple legal one (ie people using the facilities for their sex) is pointless - the solution is there in law. If obeying the law causes problems for transpeople (which it might), it is up to them to decide what they want to do. But they can no longer compel others to pretend that they have become women, because they have not.

I don't feel I should have to answer, I am simply having a conversation about toilet facilities and how the planned changes would impact women posting here in a positive way like the OP. Resolving the issue of trans people in women's toilets is just a byproduct it seems if we listen to women on this thread.

You don’t have to answer. Luminance.
You can continue with the ^garbled word salad posts.

You have read all the pros and cons of sorting out the issues with women’s safe spaces, not just toilets.

If men in whatever guise respect the rule no males in female safe spaces
there isn’t a problem.

At the moment we still have men in whatever guise continue to say that they have a right to pretend they’re women and we have females who support that right directly, or by refusing to admit to say that you can’t change sex.

And there is the problem. When you (or others) refuse to acknowledge that sex is binary and immutable and that men can never be women,
Either anyone can’t bring themselves to say that, or don’t want to say it because they prefer to believe the lie that you can change sex.

I read today that
The only essential requisition for being a transwoman is to be male.
If you’re a TW use male or unisex toilets.

Women can’t be Transwomen, because they’re female.

I am engaging in a discussion about toilets. I am sure there are others interested in diversifying the conversation but I'm not interested in doing that on this thread.

Wonderful Luminance
We’ve been here before.

The discussion about trans people in general, the courts have sorted that issue out have they not? I would expect to see biological women protected in sports and other things now. I can see that might need some discussion should that not materialise. However I don't see the discussion around enabling trans people to have facilities to use as having much to do with that issue when it will benefit women far more so I just do not know why anything else has relevance.

However I don't see the discussion around enabling trans people to have facilities to use as having much to do with that issue when it will benefit women far more so I just do not know why anything else has relevance.

??

People need the toilet, they must evacuate their waste. Ideally in comfort and safety. Do we agree?

Luminance

People need the toilet, they must evacuate their waste. Ideally in comfort and safety. Do we agree?

100% agree. Women need women only spaces to do so safely and with dignity. That means keeping men, all men, out. Evacuate your waste in a facility that matches your birth sex or use one that accepts both sexes.

No problem.
Women use female lavatories; men use male lavatories.
Perfectly simple.

What if there is only one toilet available for a space?

Luminance

What if there is only one toilet available for a space?

???

Thats already been discussed Luminance

Didn’t you RTWT?

I assume you mean only one toilet available, in which case it is available to both sexes , but only one at a time.
Should it be labelled male, or female, the opposite sex will have to find another one elsewhere.
And if they are desperate, then there will be a nasty accident, and they will have to clean it up and learn to check out toilet facilities in good time in future.

Well yes but here we are going around in the same circles. For what it is worth, a single secure toilet is fine for me and from personal experience of walking in to primarily female staffed organisations, that redundant mens cubicle can then be put to far better use.

We are indeed going round in circles.

Because some people still don’t accept
that the law says you may not use toilets labelled for the opposite sex from you.
They are then once again desperately raising the what if situations because they don’t like the rule.

Only one toilet-in places like cafes or elsewhere are never in my experience both in the UK or abroad, labelled anything except toilet or WC.

If perchance they were labelled by sex in the UK, then one group would have to do as eazybee said above because it’s the law.

Changing the labels will fix the issue at hand then. Cost effective for small businesses as well.

eazybee I shared your confusion @ 17.09. Just a string of incoherent random words thrown together for the hell of it.

Luminance

Changing the labels will fix the issue at hand then. Cost effective for small businesses as well.

What issue at hand?
If there are no instances of only one toilet labelled as anything except toilet or WC, what labels do you want to change?

You're keeping someone entertained MollyGo

Primarily female staffed organisations still have male staff and visitors, but they are able to provide lavatories for both sexes, there is no problem.

It's rather up to businesses and organisations how they handle that I would have thought. That way they can make things comfortable for themselves and visitors if they have them. Trans people did not stop existing after the ruling so it may depend on staffing or average clientele.

Carlotta

You're keeping someone entertained MollyGo

Oh I know, but I’m used to dealing with
“But what if’s” from children. They do that a lot.