EHRC suggestion on toilet facilities

Baring in mind the lack of changing facilities in the mens comment actually pertained to that burden being forced entirely on women

Well it's not much of a stretch to understand why it's predominantly but not always women who change babies nappies is it? But for those emancipated men who are out and about with their babies, or single parents to babies, they could simply ask if changing facilities are not obviously available couldn't they? Men are really not the fragile, reticent, shy or backward people you imagine them to be. They're perfectly capable of fighting for what they want without handmaidens making excuses for them and fighting battles on their behalf. If they want baby changing facilities- ask for them, campaign for them. If they want facilities where they can cos play their feminine side and apply their lipstick without fear of getting beaten up by other men, campaign for them. And stop telling women that they have to give up their spaces, or have any responsibility to be a part of the solution; we really don't.

Carlotta

Yes I would Luminance

For men or women? What makes you think that?

Men. And I think Mt subsequent posts have fully explained why I think that.

Carlotta

Men. And I think Mt subsequent posts have fully explained why I think that.

What makes you think that based on any comments I have made on this thread that actually pertain to proposing anything for men in this scenario and not women?

Who caused the need for the truth that males are not females to be stated in law and the need for female concerns to be considered?
Males and sadly, some females.

We have had our concerns considered, and it is now illegal for males to use women's spaces.

Result.

And however many times it needs repeating for those determined not to accept it.

We have had our concerns considered, and it is now illegal for males to use women's spaces.

Result.

I've explained my reasons clearly enough for others to understand and agree with Luminance. I'm not going to hold your hand, explain in any finer detail or guide you through it; I'm not a prop or a handmaiden for anyone.

Quite Mollygo but I'm not entirely sure what that has to do with guidance for provision of usable bathrooms and why it would be an issue to elaborate on that for those who have commented here on changes that would make their own lives easier.

Carlotta

I've explained my reasons clearly enough for others to understand and agree with Luminance. I'm not going to hold your hand, explain in any finer detail or guide you through it; I'm not a prop or a handmaiden for anyone.

Well I think that the truth is that I support those women on this thread who have explained their own issues around the safety and accessibility of toileting facilities and I haven't mentioned anything at all for men because I don't actually know what those are. I think agreeing with your statements on face value is absolutely fine, I just question what it has to do with what I have said myself.

Luminance

Quite Mollygo but I'm not entirely sure what that has to do with guidance for provision of usable bathrooms and why it would be an issue to elaborate on that for those who have commented here on changes that would make their own lives easier.

Exactly Liminance.

No Luminance what you've actually done is obfuscate and deflect; trying to pin posters down to ever more detalied reasons for them to not share their space with a bloke in the hope that you might change their way of thinking (today 19.18) You've vacillated between baby changing facilities and disabilities, infirmaties and queues, but you've been totally unsuccessful in changing mine, or the Supreme Court's decision that men are no longer welcome in a female's toilets.
You've repeatedly been told that there is one overarching solution to women being safe, comfortable and have accessible toilets and that has unequivocally been KEEP MEN OUT. That includes men with or without a penis/in or not in a frock, with or without a placard telling us that we're terfs. It really shouldn't have taken you 10 pages of posts to understand that.

Carlotta Not at all. I've simply read and responded to other peoples comments with thoughts on better facilities for women. Why do you think otherwise?

Better facilities for women, are facilities without men. There. Fixed that for you.

It did not need any fixing, I am speaking of biological women using facilities. Please do enlighten me on what the problem is with what I am saying because I am rather at a loss to understand.

I am rather at a loss to understand

Yup, I've noticed. .

Carlotta I am sorry but I just don't know what else to say.

Luminance

Carlotta I am sorry but I just don't know what else to say.

For goodness sake.

If you agree that there should bee separate sex facilities, what have you been talking about for pages and pages? Women don't need better facilities - just ones without men in them. It's really simple.

I was responding to other women commenting their needs and fears on this thread whom I replied to direct in some instances. Perhaps I can make that more clear in future. I will take it into consideration.

The bottom line though, is that for many women their needs involve the right to privacy dignity and safety when vulnerable. Trying to find loopholes or ways to make that work for men is not going to fly.

If you do agree that single sex spaces are the way ahead (as recommended by law) there is nothing for you to sort out for us. We have already had that right restored, as we made our concerns clear and were understood by those in a position to do something about it.

Luminance there used to be a poster who, before she got banned, always posted how she was happy for transwomen to sit beside her, share single sex spaces blah blah blah. Her response was always a compromise away from just single sex spaces. She thought there was 'evidence' that transness was scientifically provable or would be very soon as evidenced by pathetic unscientific websites, mostly populated by people with skin in the game. It's not surprising therefore that posters find your wanting to fix every possible problem for men (whether they identify as such or not) somewhat 'interesting', if not just infantilising of men. The only men who will have problems with the clarification of the existing laws are those that sought to evade them.

Well, I don't know what responsibility I would have for other posters or banned ones. A troll here once said I was someone else which caused all sorts of issues even though it was a troll saying it and Gransnet was able to verify my account here. I was simply responding to other women on this thread who didn't seem to mind my doing so and thought their comments worth consideration. As this site is populated by many people who are welcome to share many different things I would assume it is acceptable to reply and not have the rather tiresome issue of people saying I have said things I have not simply because someone else I do not know did once.

Eh? I was merely pointing out that virtually every point you make in favour of including men into women's spaces has already been debated and denied by most women on these boards. Who was the troll, it would be good if you could name the username they posted under? You do seem to be coming up with problems and solutions, none of which mean keeping men in all their guises out of women's spaces. Perhaps you could confirm and clarify that you agree sex is fixed at conception and is immutable and is totally different to the nebulous idea of 'gender identity'.

I do have to wonder if you remember the thread we are posting under and perhaps you should press "Show OP" because I have, in fact, stayed on topic the entire length of the thread and responded to others doing the same.

Oh my word, how long have you been on GN? Threads move 'off title' so regularly that to comment on deviation is usually to invite an avalanche of reminders that nothing, including GN threads, is static.

The comments I replied to are quite recent. I have no problem at all with a subject deviating though, what would you like the subject to become Rosie51?

Luminance You answer my question (posted before yours) and I'll answer yours. Do you agree sex is determined at conception and is immutable? Therefore transwomen are men, will always be men and can never be biological women?