Women’s Rights

I think you would have to be convinced you are right, how else could you face what you have done.

Who? If you don’t mind me asking? My daughter is a primary school teacher, in their school they deal with any children voicing preferences, very sensitively and in accord with parents wishes.

That sums it up perfectly. The number of parents (Google it) who now claim the latest in thing - a trans child and expect the school to use the wrong pronouns, support the child’s delusion and go along with the idea that their child has changed sex is increasing.
Even those arriving at pre-school, who don’t even know what being a boy or being a girl means except via genitalia, now arrive with parents claiming that he/she is now a girl/boy.
Treating them sensitively?
And, as I have seen for myself, treating those children e.g. in secondary who refused to go along with the lie less sensitively?

Bridey

My mistake Rosie, i thought you found the photo disgusting,

No worries, I must admit I feared it might seem that way, the formatting doesn't allow for clearly 'distancing' yourself. On second thoughts I should have put her comment in quotation marks and italics.

Just reading this thread shows me how very complicated it is, and that any proposals will generate a lot of discussion and controversy, and I think out needs the time to do this and focus on it.

Im my opinion it's sensible to wait until after the local elections. There is so much on the plate to discuss and consider, and we are less likely to get a decent and public debate on it if it gets mixed up with everything from potholes to council funding, really serious local issues that people are wanting to discuss on the doorstep.

After the elections is a far better time, and it will be a complex discussion, for although to me the general principles are clear - -womens spaces are for women - its in the practicalities and expenses of putting this into practice that become the problem. There will be some grey areas. There will be fierce debate around some of them:

why is is so dreadful to wait a few weeks

why is is so dreadful to wait a few weeks because the guidance will not be discussed, debated and then altered, it is the final version. It's been a whole year since the Supreme Court clarification that woman and man in the Equality Act refers to biological sex at birth. You do not find it suspicious that this final version only dropped on BP's desk the very day she couldn't publish it, after a whole year in the making? Call me cynical but such perfect timing just before some local elections seems rather too convenient to me. I'd be saying the same whoever was in government. Even though I voted Labour I'm not blind to their faults, and this whole issue is one of them.

Sorry but if as a government you think this is a complex subject, then please don't expect me to trust you on housing, the economy, etc.
Be nice, just wait, whilst a group of misogynists don't understand the word no.

I have not yet, in door knocking for this election, encountered a single person who has alluded to this issue as a concern at all. It's on local stuff and in the case of Reform usually immigration.

I also don't think proposals are fixed in stone forever, "final version" or not.

I'm being pragmatic: I want the time and head space to consider these issues and comment and others actively caught up in local elections do too. I really don't see what others do here - its a huge, major issue for the future and why does a few weeks after a year on such a controversial area matter really?

Women are being discriminated by services on a daily basis, either discrimination is important or it isn't. The subject was raised in my local labour group and at the mps hustings.

The first discussions on this issues were over a decade ago.

Rosie51

Apparently that’s not correct Grannybags but it’s a convenient excuse. The timing is so suspicious you have to wonder what it will say. Obviously they know it will upset some voters.,

The last round of elections was a timely soapbox for a lot more than 'some voters' - many, many pensioners who had spent a winter juggling between heating or eating made their anger known.

This time there are several contentious issues up in the air, not least the increasing unpopularity of the PM. He's looking at the very possibility of a wipe-out.

He could salvage something if he jettisoned Rachel Reeves, the millstone round his neck. But he won't for reasons best known to himself.

I also don't think proposals are fixed in stone forever, "final version" or not.

Wyllow does this mean you're happy for the discrimination against women and girls to carry on for another 10 years while the 'final, final version' is agreed? If not for how much longer can the erasure of women's rights continue before you'd say enough is enough?

I'm being pragmatic: I want the time and head space to consider these issues and comment and others actively caught up in local elections do too. so 51% of the population can wait another few weeks so that those caught up in local elections don't have to think of more than one thing at a time? Rather selfish I'd have thought. My local labour councillor was happy to confirm that he knew what a woman was when I asked him, so will be getting my vote. Given that the council are responsible for enforcing rules of access in council run establishments it was an important question to ask him.

Rosie51
My local labour councillor was happy to confirm that he knew what a woman was when I asked him,

So was mine, but he added that he couldn’t speak for other members of the LP. including KS.

The Green candidate wouldn’t say, but waffled about how protecting trans was important and could have even been a GN poster when he added,
Honestly, you can’t always tell.

That phrase is straight out of the incel handbook.

The Green candidate wouldn’t say, but waffled about how protecting trans was important and could have even been a GN poster when he added,
Honestly, you can’t always tell.

Don't you just love the thought behind that which is in essence 'if you don't know you're being deceived then it doesn't matter'? I wonder if that extends to other areas, being ripped off financially, being cheated on by a spouse or partner..........

Yes that is why it is so creepy.

Anyone who knows me at all from other posts knows that I am very concerned indeed about attacks on women both verbal and physical: I've been a lifelong feminist and also survived not only a coercively abusive marriage and a recent Sexual Assult.

Frankly, its offensive to try and provoke by saying

"Wyllow does this mean you're happy for the discrimination against women and girls to carry on for another 10 years while the 'final, final version' is agreed? If not for how much longer can the erasure of women's rights continue before you'd say enough is enough"

because offences verbal and physical and social against women come in a whole range of forms and most are perpetrated by men as well as the complexity and threats of trans matters.

I am continually having to argue my point on these matters and I volunteer for an omens abuse charity.

So lay off: all I am saying it that I want the announcement and the fall out to be discussed in a proper manner and I honestly do not think that 4 weeks makes a difference.

Yes men, men who identify as trans are in the category of men.
Ginger men, short men, men who pretend to be women, all in the category of men.

So lay off: all I am saying it that I want the announcement and the fall out to be discussed in a proper manner and I honestly do not think that 4 weeks makes a difference.

4 weeks might not mean anything to you but to some women it could be very important. I really don't think "we've ignored it for a year so a bit longer doesn't matter" is a good argument.

The fallout you anticipate shouldn't make an iota's difference to the implementation finally of what was clarified as the law one whole year ago. Do you think the fallout would adversely affect the Labour vote, is that the reason for the delay? I'm not a Labour party activist just a normal Labour voter, but I do value honesty and transparency and I don't believe BP has displayed either in regards to this matter.

Wyllow you are not alone in having been subjected to sexual or physical abuse, and I'm sure many of us volunteer for groups that support women. That certainly colours my judgement!

Galaxy

Yes men, men who identify as trans are in the category of men.
Ginger men, short men, men who pretend to be women, all in the category of men.

Yes. Men are male, no matter what size, shape, vocal range, eye colour, hair colour or style of clothing.