Relationships and choices after bereavement

To Budge, my heartfelt condolences, and to you (and almost everyone on this thread) I take my hat off to you.

Your level-headedness and the thoughtful, genuine engagement from posters to Budge's situation have restored my faith in Gransnet.

I have no advice but my husband is terminally ill, and when the time comes I will visit again, if not before, in the hope of the same sort of sensible, helpful and empathic responses.

Good luck, Budge. You sound so strong, you've made quite an impression on me at a vulnerable time.

I just want to say, Budge, you sound like a lovely, kind, thoughtful Mum. If my Mum had been willing to help me in that way after a relationship breakdown in my twenties, it would have meant so much.

Joined, but separate living space might be good, so your grandchild can come and go freely between the two- but you and your daughter can each have your own privacy and pay separate bills.

Your daughter could benefit from running a home by herself , paying bills and being independent, otherwise she will have to learn those life skills on top of grieving for you, one day. She may also want to have a man overnight etc so maybe privacy would be good... I really like your idea of two properties though.

You do not have a dysfunctional family - you just have a family that, like all families, has its ups and downs and contains different personalities who have to work at getting on together.

Too true Meryl.

Jerseygal
If your therapist lead you to believe that all families are dysfunctional they are in the wrong profession.
Absolute shite.

Thank you Budge. That’s really kind of you, and same here. I really admire your strength in the face of all that’s happened to you and it sounds as though you’re moving towards a better place. The sort of lady who would fit into a community very well and make friends easily, so I hope you can achieve that. Do keep in touch with us and let us know how you’re getting on. There’s a lot of friendship and support to be found here.

Dear Germanshepherdsmum, thanks for coming to my defence, you’re obviously a kind hearted sweetie, who cares about people, I think I like you, although I’ve never met you. Please be reassured that I’m well aware that many people have different opinions and sometimes those opinions may amuse me.

Sometimes people mean well but aren’t the best communicators.

Hi, Allsortsofbags, again you sound a level headed person, so thank you for your support. I will definitely look for the thread you mentioned, I’m always open to hearing of others experiences.

Budge

I'm so pleased for you that 1) you and your DD are talking 2) you are reading and 3) open to the counselling offered. Each in it's own way are proof (if it's needed) that you are willing to take care of yourself as well as your DD & DGD.

Such a good sign that however long it takes you and whatever you need to put in place you for your future you are a resourceful and caring person and you will get a good outcome in the fullness of time.

The material by Megan Devine seems really good, I might buy the book as things have moved on so much and I like her approach so thank you for introducing me to her.

Re your property dilemma, you seem to have some good suggestions/information from the GNers and in time there will be a way forward that works for you.

As for your DD and her relationship expectations and any fall out you may be dealing with I wondered if she is open to counselling too, I hope she is.

If you do find yourself carrying some of the emotional load around her relationship a counselling can help and if you're seeing a counsellor your DD may be more open to it if she isn't already in counselling.

There was a a lovely thread on here a while ago I think was called "Living for yourself not just by yourself" or something like that. May be a bit too soon for you but the posts were very interesting.

Wishing you the very best of outcome whatever your way forward turns out to be.

I don't think that's very helpful Jerseygal. Budge is supportive of her daughter, not trying to 'rescue' her. Suggesting that the family is dysfunctional and in need of therapy is insulting.

Pattern of Codependency Behaviors in Families. "Rescuing" is one. You can't Rescue your daughter. You can be Supportive. Help her without Hurting yourself. Detach with Love. Acceptance you can't change her. You deserve to live your life. Let her live hers. Family Therapy may help your situation. All families are Dysfunctional. Therapy helped me understand that and helped me have Healthy Boundaries. Transitions are part of life. It's tough to watch loved ones make mistakes. Have you thought of Family Therapy?

How about having 2 properties, as you suggested, with you both owning one each?
Your daughter could live with you and rent out her property but would be able to move there if she wished.

Budge, sorry for your loss. At your age, you deserve some peace and quiet.

Ideally, you should move to a cheaper location, whereby with her 33% share, your daughter can buy her own property for eg., a 2 bedroom flat.

If not possible, a property with a self contained unit like a granny annex so that you can have your own personal space.

I have a second property overseas where my daughter is the co owner. I only put her name down instead of my husband's because I wanted a longer term mortgage.

Mmm, again, something to consider, so thank you. We had talked in the past of buying a small flat nearer the water and a second smaller property inland, so we could split our time between the two and it would open the opportunity to perhaps rent out one. At the moment we live between Dartmoor and the sea, 15/20 drive to both.
A lot to consider but I think I’ll find a good solicitor and check out all my options, it might be necessary to do something protect us all.

You would be very foolish to give your daughter any more than her existing third share; it would be better to help her now to buy a small property independently and retain sole ownership of your new property.
Circumstances change; at present she wishes to live with you, later she may change her mind, and you could find your house sold from under you and living in a very small rented flat; happened to a friend of mine who shared joint ownership of the family property with her devoted son, then he married unexpectedly quite late in life and suddenly she was persona non grata.

Thanks, that makes sense and at least I know what it’s now called, I have to look for another solicitor soon as I think I may need my will to be changed, so I’ll make sure they are the right one for the job.

Again, such kind, good, sensible advice. Re the counselling, the hospice has been in touch and I do intend to try it, I do need someone I can speak too in confidence. I’m also reading a recommended book, It’s ok that you’re not ok, which I’m finding helpful. To be honest, I’m not sure how I’m doing, but I’ll find out in time.

I now know that people’s health can change quickly, whilst I am now perfectly fit and well , who knows what’s ahead. Whilst I can afford the upkeep of this house, and it’s in an lovely area, but there is nothing here, I would rather live closer to the water, I love the sea and I would rather spend the money on improving our quality of life. I want us all to be somewhere with a centre, where we can all make friends, I want to see my girls enjoy their lives, not have to worry about the cost of upkeep of a house, because that’s all it is, a house, it’s how you like your life which is the important thing.

I need to know that they’ll both be ok. I’m still concerned about my daughter, but at least we are now talking about it.

When we buy our next house, I will ensure that we are both protected. My daughter only owns 33% , she still wants to live with me but I know I would give her the lions share. My pensions will keep on coming, I’m financially secure, my husband made sure I would be ok.

I am quite overwhelmed by the level of support and advice you have all given me, sorry if I haven’t answered everything, not sure what I expected but you’ve all certainly restored my faith. Thank you

I’m pleased that things are moving forward. You are doing incredibly well for someone so recently bereaved, so well done. If you do decide to buy another property with your daughter I would strongly advise you to use a good solicitor who can prepare a declaration of trust to protect your interests as far as possible. A basic conveyancer might give you a cheap quote but isn’t necessarily able to do this, so paying for a good solicitor is money well spent. He/she can suggest various eventualities to cover. It’s possible that you and your daughter might need to have separate solicitors for this as your interests diverge, but the solicitor will tell you if that’s needed. And make sure the declaration is put in place at the same time that contracts are exchanged, don’t leave it until later.

Budge So sorry for your loss

From you post and responses it seems as if you are making progress even at this very sad and difficult time so give yourself a really big well done for that. Wow you are a force of nature, I'm not sure I could be as strong as you are being on your own.

However, reading your post, in addition to all the good advice you've had from the GNers have you thought of getting some counselling for yourself?

By getting some counselling for yourself you will have someone to support you through the changes you and your daughter and DGD are going through.

A counsellor can be someone to "be there" for you so that you are not so alone with everything. They can be someone share emotions and distress with in a safe place.

That may help as it will be someone NOT family, someone NOT grieving who can be there in the session for you without you feeling like a burden.

However much you mange to share with your daughter - it is clear you are aware of her grieving - you seem like a person who doesn't want to add to another's grief but please don't forget about your needs.

Also counselling make help you stay clear and supported with the steps and changes that lie in front of you.

Whatever you choose to do you seem like a very caring, strong and capable lady and I wish you the very best possible outcome.

I'm glad you have started the conversations Budge. My daughter wasn't at all happy when I finally managed to sell our family home, but I don't think she realised how I had to juggle money to keep my listed house going. I am so glad I managed to downsize when I did.

Are you joint tenants in common and is your daughter’s share of the house set in stone regardless of your late husbands’ share - in other words does his share pass to you or is it divided equally between the two of you with a 50/50 share ? I ask because I was in a similar situation - my mum was a joint tenant in common with myself and my late husband. We each had a third share and when my passed away the share became 50/50, so I needed her agreement when the house was sold because I found myself in your position - without my husbands’ income I couldn’t afford the upkeep of the house. If you agree to put the house on the market and you decide to buy together again, you need to get your solicitor to draw up exactly who owns what and make it clear. Problem is, if she moves another man in, he could potentially end up with a claim on her share of any property you own jointly so you need to clarify exactly what your share is and then protect it.

I am very sorry for your loss and that you have the worry about your daughter as well.

I suppose I just want to say that although the conventional wisdom is don’t make big decisions in the first year, it was advice that I heeded and it was wrong for me.

I knew I did not want to continue living in that big house and that village but people saying don’t make big decisions made me afraid to do what I really knew was right for me. So I stayed and was unhappier than I needed to be.

I didn’t really start to feel better until I eventually moved.

Now the advice might be right for you and best not to pay attention to me. I just wanted to say waiting isn’t always best.
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So much caring advice from you all, thank you, you’ve given me much to think about but Germanshephersmum is absolutely right, I would never want to knowingly hurt or put my daughter through further court proceedings. We have now spoken, we need to speak more but she understands the rationale behind my plans and is prepared to move. In regards to the future, what I am proposing, is in her best interests, should I pop my clogs, this house is too costly for her to run, she’d own it but she’d have to sell it anyway. Thinking forwards, I do think when we buy another property, it would be prudent, when contracts are drawn up to have some caveats (I think that’s what they’re called) to protect both our interests. I hadn’t thought about that, so thanks again. As to the present man in her life, that needs further understanding and clarification.

Not without a lot of difficulty and potentially the involvement of lawyers FarNorth . Budge doesn’t want that. It could easily lead to estrangement from her daughter and grandchild and that’s not the road to go down.

I wonder if your daughter is looking to the future - having lost her father, she will be thinking what will happen should she lose you too. Her new man may be her insurance policy against that.

I think you must discuss it all with her - if you wish to continue living together then she should do most of the planning etc making the best choices for her and her daughter, while ensuring you move somewhere convenient for you as you get older.

Sometimes adult children forget that their parents are getting a bit worn out and tired ! Don't be afraid to remind her.

The thought of yet more upset about a man she’s known a matter of months, when she’s grieving for her dad, worries me. I don’t think I could cope with more emotional rubbish.

Have you explained this to your daughter and asked her to be careful for your sake?
When does this man want to go travelling? Is it just something in the distant future that means he needn't commit to anything?

Have you and your daughter discussed your difficulties with your present home, and where you might like to move to?

Incidentally, your daughter doesn't have to give permission for your house to be sold, although she is part owner.
If one joint owner of a property wants to sell it, they can do so.