Very Elderly neighbours not helped by family.

Yesterday friends had a call about the old woman next door who had buzzed her buzzer after falling. They are the nearest contact as her next nearest is a nephew miles away. Friend went in and called an ambulance which arrived quickly but the old woman refused to go in it. She has dementia and was kicking off. I think she was checked for serious injury but then left at home alone. It seems you can't be forced to go to hospital against your will.

I would not lift anyone up from the floor.

Well, I wouldn't normally, Pepper but, having done a First Aid Course and my younger neighbour being a trained nurse, we assessed the situation and realised that yes, she had slid very gently off her chair which was one which could propel you from sitting to standing.

Unless you've been watching their home 24/7 you have no idea if she sees or has contact with her family.My late mother phoned my godmother to compain about me ,she never saw me apparently! I must have been shopping and cooking for some other woman daily in my lunch break and popping in to clean up both her and her bed/floor after another wee accident.
Dont get me wrong I had no problem caring for her ,ever.and my sister was the same but it was like a kick in the gut that she told folk we did nothing for her .She once told me I shouldn't look after my GS and my daughter should look after him herself as I needed to be there more for her !
Some elderly people see life very differently from the rest of us .

Does it matter who did or did not thank them? If your neighbour does not want to help then tell her not to.

A call system would be the best option, maybe someone could contact the family if the elderly neighbours cannot organise it themselves.

My parents, particularly my father, were fiercely independent; when my mother fell out of bed he rang Social services who refused to come (not insured to lift the elderly) and advised him to ring the Doctor, which he did, who told him to call an ambulance, which my father wouldn't do. Eventually he dragged my mother back into bed.
I lived 170 miles away, no other family but there were friends and neighbours who would have helped, and Social Services should have ensured that someone was attending.
I can't imagine ambulances and paramedics being available at this time, and the family may be unaware of what is happening.

Very difficult situation. We had similar until recently - couple in late 80s, him disabled after a stroke many years ago, she very frail. We were getting calls 2-3 times a week to help with something or other, quite often it was he who’d fallen yet again. Luckily he’s light, and he’d never fallen far or hurt himself, so dh and I nearly always managed.

Their dcs live an hour and nearly 3 hours away, and area working, so could not always drop everything. Their food shopping was organised by dcs online, though.

We have known the couple for many years and are very fond of them, but it really was getting a bit much. TBH we were on the point of saying as much to their dcs, when he fell yet again when we were out, an ambulance came, and he was taken to hospital, where eventually it was deemed that he wasn’t safe to go home without care in place. Carers now come in 4 times a day - it was frankly well overdue, and since then we’ve had no calls for help.

OP, I do think your friend needs to make it clear to their children that she cannot continue to do this, especially in the case of falls, and they must arrange help elsewhere.

As an outsider, you never know the whole story

How AC's relationships with their parents?
Are these neighbours even ok to live in their own, given their health?

Do the neighbours even call their kids?

Too many unknowns

Sometimes as a neighbour you can get over involved with an elderly person even when there are kin in residence. I was once kind enough to help a nearby neighbour fill in a DLA form and thereafter found myself being called upon to perform all kinds of extra services. Making phone calls, getting quotes from tradesmen, picking up bits of shopping.

I was having mobility problems myself, did not drive and had a busy full time job. Often the lady would come around for a "chat" when she knew I was working at home and the chat would last for hours. Then I would have to spend my evening doing the work I should have done that day.

In the meantime her grown up son moved in but was no help. He was "not good" at filling up forms, dealing with social matters etc.

After he moved in I began to gradually distance myself. I told the lady that the university now required us to work in our offices so I would no longer be at home in the day for a chat. Fortunately she was not in a position where she could see me coming and going. I only answered her phone about 1 in 3 times when I saw her number and became gradually less and less available. Eventually they sold up and downsized so I suppose she got her claws into someone else at the new location.

Some VERY good posts in reply to your thread.

I agree with a lot. Never pick someone up from the floor. They may have damaged themselves through the fall and by you lifting them, you may cause further damage and you could hurt yourself with the weight.

When i started out as a carer, 1 of the rules was to never lift anyone who has fallen.

The issue raised regarding the AC. The number of times i was told by a service user of the lack of help/care that cane from their AC was unbelievable. I used to go home after work with the latest negative account of how poor Ethel hardly saw her AC and allow it to churn and churn around my head and i would later find out that it was all concocted( not allll service users )

Regarding involving social services, i would speak to the AC if that is possible and take it from there.

A very difficult situation that obviously needs intervention and help but i would contact the family.

Hope a solution is found soon and if there any further falls, they don't result in broken bones.

I have a dear friend, who is a couple of years younger than me, but will not do anything on her own. She needs someone to accompany her everywhere. One of her ds.i.l. goes with her, to the grocery store, to the Doctor, to the Shops. It's not that she can't drive. She's a more confident driver than I am. I am totally different and like going on my own, which brings me to the question. How am I going to cope when I am unable to drive???? Shoot myself ?

eazybee

I can't imagine ambulances and paramedics being available at this time, and the family may be unaware of what is happening

... but the ambulance crew will, eventually, come if an elderly person has had a fall and is unable to get up under their own steam. It happened to my partner at the height of the pandemic last year. They told me that it was right to call them, regardless of the crisis. Whilst I was waiting, a medic came on the line and told me exactly what to do (and what not to do), and that was very reassuring.

One of the things they are concerned about if a person has had a fall - is why and they like to check you over to make sure there is nothing else going on which they did with my partner and discovered that his blood sugar was very high (31) and admitted him to A&E. If I had not called them, neither of us would have known this, and it could have been very dangerous. They noticed things that I didn't.

The moral of this is that it's a good idea to call an ambulance after an elderly person's had a fall and is unable to get up easily... they will come - even now.

Thanks for all your advice I shall pass it on. When I had to do it myself for an elderly parent who lived hundreds of miles away we arranged for one of the alarm buttons and two nearby relations were named with their permission. Then they called me when there was a major emergency. I also found that things that were put in place like frozen meals etc. were cancelled without my knowledge I was lucky and the companies informed me.
I agree if possible all parties should be involved and not left to willing neighbours,who might do the wrong thing.

Surely this is a safe guarding issue?

My DM would mournfully tell her carer that’s she hadn’t seen a soul all day - when I was in the next room! I used to do a 160 mile round trip two or three times a week to help out and give her some company but as her dementia progressed her memory got steadily worse and she forgot I’d visited 5 minutes after I left. I also wouldn’t rely on having an alarm in case of a fall. My 85 year old uncle has one, falls frequently and my aunt, who can’t lift him will press the alarm button. More often than not the alarm company then call their daughter who is at work 50 miles away!

tidyskatemum. It is so hurtful when this happens. What would be useful is if a welcoming VISITOR BOOK could be provided either by the family (as a present) or the contracted care service. This would protect informal contacts and provide an overview of the actual emotional/practical support that exists in an elderly persons life at the informal level. Paid carer's/ neighbours jump to conclusions too easily. I was in contact with an elderly relative for about ten years she was independant and spritely but would often say that I was the first person she had spoken to all week which put emotional pressure on me to try to visit more often. However over time I found that in the course of the visit she would invariably go on to mention various neighbour's, friends and relatives who had popped in for a chat, dropped shopping off etc. As she reached her late eighties she developed a short term memory disorder which aggravated this tendency (unaware of visits or trips out etc within minutes of these people leaving). Eventually when a care package was provided her distress led to paid carers venting against informal visitors who had provided unpaid support many years. Also, I don't think it is always an issue of elderly people holding on to independence. My relative lost the ability to gauge the consequences of her decision making and accept that she needed more formal support which had to be paid for. Too much emphasis is placed on memory during assessments not deficits in 'consequential decision making', which if identified would allow providers to initiate practical support much earlier and enable these people to live independently in their own homes.

Good advice

A basic of First Aid is not to lift an elderly person off the floor. There may be a fracture of the femur or similar. An ambulance should be called.

"Neighbour went and is yet waiting to be thanked by offspring..." when we do something for others, it's not to be thanked for it.

If someone has a fall and can't get up, call an ambulance.
They will assess the situation and should inform any authorities of any further needs.

I am in a similar situation: my two elderly neighbours have serious conditions and are in and out of hospital. No family in this country. They are unable to cook, clean, shop & etc. They were unable to deal with the persistence required in securing help from social services, eg holding the line, being passed around forever on the phone & etc, so I offered to do it for them.

I do know of people who did not want their offspring to to be "bothered" when they needed help.
One of our friends, not that elderly but not fit, used to regularly ask us for help because her offspring "had busy lives", disregarding the fact that we both had very full-time jobs. Eventually we just had to make ourselves unavailable and she easily found paid help, which she could well afford it.

Yes please do not rush to criticise the adult children! They may well have pressures on them that you know nothing about!
My mother for example concealed from me how ill she really was, I lived 200 miles away, worked full time in a very demanding stressful job with a none understanding boss,had 3 children 2 of them going through tricky teen years with severe bullying etc and a sick husband I didnt find out how bad things were til nearly too late! I remember disapproving looks from one of her neighbours who had assumed I didnt care!!

I would be very careful before you get involved, we have helped elderly neighbours who have fallen as they didn't want to bother their children! I have elderly in laws one of whom has dementia, my husband and I and my sister in law visit regularly; we organise home visits and for carers and help with cleaning and gardening as requested by my mother in law only for her to cancel as soon as we leave; they refuse help and are extremely aggressive and rude to anyone who actually gets through the door (including the GP and nurses) It is a difficult and upsetting situation especially for my husband and sister in law; I know they relish phoning neighbours to ask for help and telling anyone who will listen that we are all terrible to them and refuse to help. It's impossible to know what to do for the best.

Sadly I know a person who skidded on gravel and fell off of a bike. They had terrible pain in their back. A passer-by decided to try and lift them despite the person saying not to touch them. Legs lost all feeling and that person is now permanently paralysed from the waist down.
You should never ever lift someone if they fall as you can cause catastrophic damage, and make any injury far worse. Also you can hurt your back lifting them.

Their family may not be aware of the situation, rather than ignoring their parents.
You don't say how far away they live from each other- their contact may only be by telephone and if they only actually visit when they can ( sorry, but you have no idea what is happening in their life, they may well be struggling themselves with work or financial problems that means they need to work multiple jobs etc) they can only go by what the parents tell them.
You can also only go by what your neighbours tell you - I know personally how elderly people can complain that no one cares ( I got accused by my father of not being bothered about him as I was always on my computer, when at the time I was actually doing a course for my workplace).
Is there any way that you could contact the family directly and explain what the situation is ?
To me it makes sense if you are closer to be the emergency contact in the case of a fall etc. Instead of complaining, please then make it your responsibility to let the family know . They can then decide what action they can take.