Reluctant carers, should I interfere and insist NOK step up to support?

Apologies, it should read:

'she does NOT have the motivation to make these arrangements'

As your husband has health problems maybe prioritise your own immediate family. She is an in-law and not a blood relative so you would do well to step back and let her adult children make any arrangements. Do not become emotionally blackmailed into committing yourself to another decade of caring for someone. Eventually they will have to make the choice whether to become involved or not. They may resent you stepping in to suggest what they should or should not do. I know that I can get quite angry when some third party tried to tell me what to do.

Can you remove your details from Social Care and give them the next if kin info?
Likewise for the "help" services. Given "she agreed to self fund onward care it seems reasonable that the care services could instigate that with her (or the social worker).

I wouldn't go behind your husband's back but I would contact social care and explain she needs help setting things up (and you can't do it as it is too stressful for your husband).

So far they set up the 4 weeks when you were away. Technically it's not your call anyway.... are you sure it's not already in place?

In passing, or to be overheard, I'd let her children know that you can't help due to your own problems, but that their mother will have to pay for everything out of her own pocket, which lessens however much they're expecting to be left in her will!!
That might light the fire under their backsides!
Btw, how far are they from her?

I would try to take a step back if you can. Can your husband talk to his sister, or talk to her children? Somehow I think it would be better coming from him.

Yes it would. But he may not want to do it.

As previous poster said, make sure your details are not listed as contact on any records.

Then practice some firm phrases to have ready when conversations arise with people.

"We are not available to provide ANY care."

"We are not next of kin".. have her adult childrens details to hand to pass on.

"We cannot make any decisions on this matter."

"We are not able to pass comment on that arrangement."

"Do not contact us again on this matter."

Stay strong and clear.
Social services and medics will step back and run away at the first sign of weakness and willingness to assume the responsibilities of care.
Look after yourselves.
YOU are YOUR priorities!

1) Make sure that every social/medical care organisation in your area have your SiL's childrens names, addresses etc down for next of kin and first call in emergencies.

2) make absolutley sure that you and your DH's names and contact details are on none of these lists.

Then learn all those helpful phrases Fleur20 has listed and use them on both local organisations and SiL's children.

What fleur and M0nica said

Her failure to plan is her own fault, not even her adult children

Thanks for the input everyone.

We are very boundaried (is that a word?) and have insisted for some time now that she contact her children first when she is unwell. It is usually the first question we ask her if she calls us. We are also not afraid of responding (and have done) to health care officials with the phrases similar to the ones suggested. Our names are not listed anywhere as NOK, and never have been.

But it is very hard knowing she is just a mile down the road and she has run out of food staples, or she needs a prescription collecting (the pharmacy are now delivering, but she still has to remember to order).
I popped in to see her this afternoon. The first time since she was discharged from hospital. She is in a muddle with her tablets. Hardly surprising given that that it has all changed. She asked me to help sort them out as she knows she has missed some doses, she also thinks something was not issued to her that is on the list and at a quick glance I think she's correct. Difficult for me to refuse, if I do who else is going to do it?
As a semi retired nurse I instinctively want to help and if she became seriously unwell (or even died) because of prolonged missed medication how would I feel? This is an easy win for me to sort out and of course I've said yes. My husband has ordered two dosette boxes for her and we will try to get some order and a sense of what she is meant to take and when.
She does not lack capacity and is quite able to (and has done for some time) manage internet banking and she also orders her groceries online for delivery.
But its the small everyday stuff that is hard to say no to, like getting her some ready cash so she can pay her cleaner or the odd job man (who is forever doing stuff around the flat for her), or taking the rubbish/recycling down to the communal bins.
I guess we don't altogether mind doing these small bits for her but they are cumulative and the more we do the more she relies on us. Meanwhile her children remain blissfully unaware of how much support she needs.
They live 3 hours from each other and it's a 3 hour journey for her daughter and 3 1/2 hrs for her son to visit her. (Only her daughter lived near her before she moved to us).

My husband typically, will not want the confrontation, but meanwhile gets more and more resentful which sometimes spills over into our everyday life in the form of extreme grumpiness, irritability, moping and general lack of engagement in everyday life.

I have talked it over with him and I think we will be having a word with them, just the once, to put it out there and so they understand how we feel. The rest will be up to them.

Please don't blame her ac

This person has been a carer herself, she knows the complexities of the role inside and out and chooses to hide her head in the sand?

You say she does not have mental diminished capacity so it is very clear she needs daily help - and it is not you or your husband who needs to fill that gap

She needs to hire people to help her

For a person who likes boundaries, you are very dangerously ignoring them and enabling her

She does have full mental capacity - my bad

She can pay people like her cleaner, gardner and handyman via Paypal or bank transfer. I do because I rarely have cash in the house. I pay them while they are still here so they can check their mobile banking and see that the money is in their account. If I need cash I bank transfer some to my nephew and he brings it on his next visit. I only use cash for taxis and most of them will now take cards if you use he app.

Is she going to be stuck at home all the time in future?

I would probably, (given she's just a mile away) ask her to make a list of things that she needs/wants doing so when you visit you can do them all at once.

I think she should pay people by bank transfer if she's able. I do that for my window cleaner and my 99 year old mother-in-law does it for her cleaner and her gardener.

Once her tablets are sorted out and she has the correct medication you could sort the pills into the storage box for her if you are happy to do that. Presumably you do visit her anyway?

I think the irritation is being "on call".
Most things aren't urgent so can wait a week or two.
If she can ring you - presumably she can call the pharmacy?

Good luck. Sometimes small things seem urgent to the other person but they really are not.

OH had multiple meds and the Pharmacy sorted it out before I collected it
Everything was in sealed compartments according to the day , that was divide£ into doses and times for taking it , easy to get at and see when something was due
Before that I spent ages sorting the tablets

Can you have a FaceTime call with her adult children all at the same time?
Then they can have it from you as a collective and no misunderstandings.
She then can hear from her own children that her brother and wife are also feeling the strain and not to be expected to be on call.

This is going to come across badly, but here goes..

Personally I would be going on holiday again..

There are certain circumstances where I think you have to preserve your own family first.

And also be cruel to be kind.
The responsibility lies with her children. In my opinion.

@fancythat is right If you are not there then you are not available. Say you are going on holiday for a couple or weeks (regardless of whether you are or not) and then go "dark". You lost your phone or whatever. Something will get sorted out in your absence and whatever is put in place with the children can be continued.

There is nothing like the person you rely on being "unavailable" for someone to HAVE to sort things for themselves. This happened to a young friend of mine in uni when a needy older woman got her claws into her. She went off to her parents house for two weeks (mother was ill) and her housemates refused to give out any contact information without her permission By the time uni friend had returned needy woman had gone elsewhere (she had a social worker).

The question is should I or shouldn't I interfere? I fear this move may create a falling out between her children and us.

You're not interfering. You're directly involved so you have every right to state your case.
If her children choose to fall out with you over it that's their problem.

Sadly your sister-in-law has put herself in this situation for her own reasons of "wanting to live by the seaside."
To be blunt I think she should move back to where she was before, with family nearby.

It's unrealistic of her, or anyone else, to expect her adult children to provide much practical care from three hours away.
I know because I was in the same situation with my parents, though in reverse with them wanting to remain on the coast.

SuperTinny your husband has already had one heart attack. Your priorities are closer to home.

Has your SIL not made any social contacts since she moved down? I.e neighbours, a church, social activities.. surely you aren't the only person she can turn to? I would encourage her to join some groups.. and for you to concentrate on your own problems.. as others have said, have an extended holiday so that your husband can recover without this added stress.. I hope you might find that SIL is more resourceful than you think..

I assume - since I can't see any mention of it - that no Lasting Power of Attorney has been set up. If not, it would make sense for you to put it to her children that it's customary for the nearest and dearest to take on this ultimate responsibility. There's no need for any of them to have to do all the work. I left it to my solicitor to make sure that everything was signed and sealed properly. It would cost more than DiY but takes the load of one of the family.

Surely if someone has no family that wants to help social service will arrange things for her. Contact them and say that you don't want to help anymore.

I sympathise. I have tried this half-way method:
Decide how much time you can realistically give her.
Write down for her that you will be visiting 2-5pm on 30th October to help arrange anything she needs. Put this in a prominent place.
Contact her kids and tell them that.
Whilst there, obviusly sort out all the bits and say 'what is happening in the next 2 weeks that you might need help with?' so you are on top of things.
Contact kids 'I have seen your mum today, have done XYZ. I will next be visiting on.......Before that, you need to check that she has ordered repeat medication (or whatever, make sure you give them at least one little task)
A couple of days before next visit contact them again 'I am going to see your mum, I will check on XYZ, have you sorted ABC?'

I am sure that as a nurse, you are very aware of this, but I know that when we're in the middle of something, it's difficut to see the wood for the trees. Although it keeps you somewhat involved, it helps with boundaries. Then once the pattern is established, you say 'I won't be able to call for a month' or something similar.

Good luck!

I agree children too far away. We had similar with an elderly neighbour then it becomes too much and they then expect more and more help. Maybe she should employ more help from carers or go into sheltered accommodation. We had to stop all extra help to neighbour apart from putting the bins out. Now he is having carers coming in and a cleaner. His wife died and they were her adult children living 3 hours away. When they did visit I had a word and sad he needs more help
And a cleaner desperately. They said we asked him to move near us and into sheltered accommodation but he refused!! So if the situation gets worse I will contact the social services department. You have to back off and hand over to them as family are so far. Case of out of sight out of mind and of course as time goes on it will get worse as this has happened to our neighbour in his 80s.