Junior doctors strike

Yes Lulu and an ordinary back bench MP, who is frequently not even in Parliament judging by the views of the chamber I often see on television, will be earning £92,000 a year, plus very generous expenses, plus having his/her mortgage paid on his/her second home in London, which will remain his or hers to sell when he or she leaves Parliament. This package of benefits is thousands more than an NHS consultant earns after extensive training often amounting to around twenty years or so. There is no training required to be an MP. They often enter Parliament after never having had a proper job, having instead worked in the inner machinations of their chosen party.

Bumface

I am rapidly approaching my mid 70s and for the very first time ever I have been 'asked to leave' ie. bounced from a party. (I was not drunk)
I was at a Christmas drinks do with neighbours and had put up with over half an hour, it seemed longer, of 'greedy junior doctor' talk. I had maintained a vacant but not unpleasant look on my face and not said anything. Finally, I snapped when a retired local estate agent piped up with "Its about time they started thinking about the welfare of their patients and not about lining their pockets". This from a man who made his, not inconsiderable, fortune during various property booms. Let's just say I will not be invited next year and will be ignored by most of my neighbours from now on. I am seriously thinking of moving next year; I shall try and avoid using an estate agent if I do.

Good for you!

www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-white-paper/waiting-times/november-2010

If anyone has forgotten that the last Labour government sorted out the health service have a look at the stats for 2010 on this link. That reflects the state of the NHS when it was passed over to the present government. If you can face it, look up 2023 stats and see the reality of the last 13 years.

Having lived with Dentists all my life and doctors most of my life I just hope the doctors do not go the same way as Dentists. We all need them but do we all have the money to pay private fees if Medical care goes the same way as Dentistry? I can answer my question no we don't. We need to pay a salary good enough to retain the ones we have and the ones we are training.
Equal rights for women which I believe in have altered the Medical world just like any other profession. Their needs as well as the males should be considered, only women can bare children and this must be considered in any planning allowing for maternity leave and part-time work.
The question then arises do our MPs think the same way as Atlee and Bevin? Somehow I doubt it.

I believe they deserve pay restoration and I support their action.

They have been trying "other methods" for twenty years and have been rewarded with more pay erosion.

Young doctors are some of the UK's most mobile and sought-after workers, and if the conditions (including pay erosion) for them continue to be poor and indeed to worsen in the UK, more and more of them will emigrate.

These are not workers the UK can readily replace.

I have a friend whose husband is a nurse. For many years he has worked nights on the bank as the flexibility suited him (and I guess paid better). Recently he has struggled to get work and as a result they are struggling financially. My friend is a teacher and has ended up taking a small second job! We hear about shortages of nurses and also shortages of doctors so to me it makes no sense!

Bumface

I am rapidly approaching my mid 70s and for the very first time ever I have been 'asked to leave' ie. bounced from a party. (I was not drunk)
I was at a Christmas drinks do with neighbours and had put up with over half an hour, it seemed longer, of 'greedy junior doctor' talk. I had maintained a vacant but not unpleasant look on my face and not said anything. Finally, I snapped when a retired local estate agent piped up with "Its about time they started thinking about the welfare of their patients and not about lining their pockets". This from a man who made his, not inconsiderable, fortune during various property booms. Let's just say I will not be invited next year and will be ignored by most of my neighbours from now on. I am seriously thinking of moving next year; I shall try and avoid using an estate agent if I do.

Bumface I applaud you. I was only talking today to DD about how important it is to speak out against wrongs and injustices. It may come at a cost but hopefully one you don't mind paying!

Bum face I applaud your courage, well said. It takes a lot to speak out when others are in total disagreement.

jocork

I have a friend whose husband is a nurse. For many years he has worked nights on the bank as the flexibility suited him (and I guess paid better). Recently he has struggled to get work and as a result they are struggling financially. My friend is a teacher and has ended up taking a small second job! We hear about shortages of nurses and also shortages of doctors so to me it makes no sense!

The problem with bank work is that when there is a money shortage it is easier to cut. It's one of the reasons it pays better than a permanent job. Your friend's husband gambled his job security against short term profit. He lost. Maybe he needs to think about a permanent post.

good for you and I am with you all the way!! We need to get rid of this appalling government who do not care about anything but themselves and as they use private doctors and want to shift us all over to the same and end up like America where if you cant pay god help you!! They have already privatised a lot of things by underhand and sneaky methods and added charges on for things that used to be free.

Sadly think you are right 😳

Listening to For The Many podcast. I hear that the Scottish doctors settled for 14% spread over about 3 years. The English Doctors strike is lead by some who have made very political statements and have made it into an attack about the wicked Tory government. Listening a lot to radio I sense that the public who were very sympathetic towards the doctors have had their patients tried when they hear that patients are unable to go home for Christmas because of the strike at present.

I was a trade unionist when I worked in Camden ( the only Conservative shop steward) and we stayed out for months.. The Union paid every striker £100 per week but those members with children found it extremely hard. I tell you all this because I am not totally against workers striking for better pay and conditions but it is not true that this government has refused to negotiate because even Jacqui Smith said they had tried! Personally, I think that it is ridiculous that medical students have to pay off their University training when we desperately need more doctors. It must put off those students whose parents cannot afford to finance their children to study medicine.
Doctors know they are putting lives at risk so they should get off the streets and get back into hospitals.

It’s not just about the pay it’s the conditions also. My daughter has worked as a junior doctor for eight years now. Many exams at her own expense (£1k a pop), revised in her own time and is looking after two small children. She still doesn’t know whereabouts in the country she is going to be working in February because she hasn’t had her rota yet. So she can’t arrange childcare, re-organise nursery, days etc.. Last week she worked nights and because of the pressures on the system, worked 15hour night shift, or with no extra pay for staying on several hours after her shift had finished She did not have a single break, because they were so busy until a kindhearted nurse gave her half an apple and four celebrations from a tub . No time to drink, eat or gather your thoughts. I do not feel these conditions would be acceptable in many other professions. So hour by hour for the work they do, the pay is not as much as other professions. I cannot think of many professions that need a five or six year university degree at considerable personal expense, followed by a seven or eight year training.
We have recently had to use the services of a solicitor who charged £750 for a telephone consultation and to write a letter!

You may have first hand experience of the training of a doctor Cornishgreenhouse. I have first hand experience of the training of a solicitor. Your solicitor would have studied and trained for anything between five and eight+ years before qualifying, and has an office to run and staff to pay. You may even be quoting the fee inclusive of VAT. However I assure you that only a small percentage of the fee finds its way into his pocket.

I've yet to see a solicitor on Christmas day responsible for wards full of patients. The junior doctor on duty when my mum was in over Christmas was lovely, bright and smiling in his Christmas jumper. He had to be called to authorise a drip. Nurses knew what was needed and could fix it but not without his signature.
My DIL had an accident last weekend and has been in several times for an injury. She has been well looked after and will be back again after Christmas. People are being treated and cared for.

If you were a commercial client dealing with people in other countries you would see your solicitor working on Christmas Day - as my son did last year.

Having come from a medical family and having worked in NHS for 30+ years I never remember a golden age when all staff, nurses, doctors and therapists only worked reasonable hours in good, well paid conditions.
Of course this should all be possible in an ideal world but it just doesn't seem to be an ideal world.

Well said Maddyone.

Germanshepherdsmum

If you were a commercial client dealing with people in other countries you would see your solicitor working on Christmas Day - as my son did last year.

Lots of people work on Christmas Day. Few of them take responsibility for wards full of people who are ill, in pain and possibly dying. Trying to equate a solicitor with a junior doctor is ridiculous. No solicitor has responsibility for life and death situations. Many junior doctors are in charge of hospitals overnight or on bank holidays.
If all the solicitors in the country went on strike few of us would notice.

I’m not trying to equate one with the other. Simply pointing out that many people have to work on Christmas Day. Of course solicitors’ responsibilities are very different from doctors’ - but if you b*gger up a multi million pound deal that can be the end of your career, just as if you make a fatal mistake with a patient.

Germanshepherdsmum

I’m not trying to equate one with the other. Simply pointing out that many people have to work on Christmas Day. Of course solicitors’ responsibilities are very different from doctors’ - but if you b*gger up a multi million pound deal that can be the end of your career, just as if you make a fatal mistake with a patient.

Actually doctors do see people die. The doctor attending my mum was a young woman, she cried because she couldn't save her. Mum had signed a DNR and wanted to die. There was no mistake but the emotional cost to the doctor was huge. No financial settlement can compensate for that, but being adequately paid would at least recognise their efforts.

They are not just striking for money - they have to work ridiculous hours because there are too few of them. NHS conditions are a nightmare. Their training is long, rigorous and expensive - it does not stop when they become doctors. Their job is the most responsible there is and they should be paid a lot more. I support them fully - what else can they do, to get listened to?

I wonder if people in the U.K. realize how abysmally poor Doctors and nurses are paid compared to other countries . They are 100 percent right to strike !

It’s amazing that we are prepared to pay thousands for our pets to have treatment.

Germanshepherdsmum

I’m not trying to equate one with the other. Simply pointing out that many people have to work on Christmas Day. Of course solicitors’ responsibilities are very different from doctors’ - but if you b*gger up a multi million pound deal that can be the end of your career, just as if you make a fatal mistake with a patient.

Totally different though, a doctor can kill somebody if they make a mistake, as well as endangering their career. That is the hugest responsibility a person can have.