Junior doctors strike

Of course, I am not disputing that. It simply arose from a previous poster talking about her solicitor’s fees. And of course doctors see people die Glorianny. That’s pretty obvious.

Having read this thread there is only one answer and that is for the taxpayers have increased tax to make the NHS the type of service citizens want. I understand one third of public money goes to the NHS. So what shall we do? I u derstand that in Eire patients pay to see their GP. Should we do that? In Europe people seem to get good services so do they pay more? Australia has a great health service but Australians pay to see a GP. So the doctors going to Australia to work are going to a Health Service which I found to be run as Private Care. A,though it is nothing like USA. I see quite a few Grans have children and other family members who are Doctors so how do they think we should pay more? Already there is a large amount of waste which nobody mentions. It is time we got real!

We already pay national insurance. This is supposed to provide for social security payments, unemployment, sick pay, maternity pay, old age pension and health care. The government chooses not to ring fence this money nor to charge workers a sensible amount. They have introduced Workforce pensions which are basically pitiful. They could have added the same amount to NI contributions and increased the state provision but they chose not to. It is all political choice. It will always serve the private sector better than the public sector. Profits before people at every opportunity.

midgey

It’s amazing that we are prepared to pay thousands for our pets to have treatment.

Good point midgey for insurance too.

Without diversity and inclusion you lose talent.
We need a diverse workforce-sexual orientation , race and religion can discourage good workers. Woke up and stop reading the Torygraph!

Frogoet, so do not read DT. Do not listen to Iain Dale and Jacqui Smith ( ex Labour Home Sec So what do you read? The Guardian and the Daily Mirror and the News Statesman?

We live in a free society or we are told we do. I need no advice as at my age I do read widely. It does not change anything. If you want a health service that meets all you want then tell that to Sir Keir Starmer. I don’t think you will get very far.

I agree.i am strongly against this strike and it’s just cos of political motivations.

Cornishgreenhousethank goodness for people like your daughter who are there when we need them. Every word you have written is correct. I know this because I also have a daughter who is a doctor, who works three jobs, one as a full time GP, another where she does weekly shifts at the ED in the hospital, often returning home late at night, and a third for a private clinic seeing menopausal women who are suffering and need medical help. This is done online in her own time. I see it from both sides because I also have a son who is a barrister and another son who is a financial director. My sons both earn far more money than my daughter. It is a fact. They don’t work harder or have more skills, they just work privately. The barrister is of course self employed as are all barristers. The other son works for a company, and he moved for more responsibility and money as and when he felt it appropriate. All three went to university. One for three years, another for four years, and my daughter, the doctor, for six years. All three went on to do further study and exams, all of which had to be paid for. The difference, the barrister was given a grant to cover his Bar School fees, and a generous allowance to cover his pupillage. The other son was given days off as study leave and his exams were paid for by his company. My daughter had to study in her own time, and had to pay to sit all her exams, some cost £2000 for an exam. This is the difference. And we should all know the difference, because we seem not to.

My great nephew is a junior doctor. A family member posted a supermarket job at £15+ an hour and he commented that's more than he gets paid. His career path started at school where he took extra maths etc to make sure he got the grades for uni. It takes a lot of work to become a doctor and that continues as someone has said. Honestly, if we don't value and respect junior doctors, it's no wonder they go on strike. We shouldn't be concentrating on the % they are asking for but the actual amount of money they are taking home to afford to live. Someone who stacks shelves (and I have done it) should not be paid the same or more than someone who has your life in thier hands. You don't go home worrying about whether you have put the beans on the peas shelf but doctors never really switch off, especially junior doctors still learning their craft. I support the strikes and believe the government should give them a much better deal.

This is from the IMF
'Capitalism is often thought of as an economic system in which ... demand and supply freely set prices in markets in a way that can serve the best interests of society.'
I've never understood why supply and demand doesn't work for public sector employees. We are desperately short of new doctors in UK, and we're hemorrhaging the ones we've got, so pay them the going rate.

Bottom line is that better workforce planning should have been instigated at least 10 years ago. More nurses and doctors in training and obliged to stay in UK for eg a minimum of five years post qualification.
If there aren't enough actual doctors, paying fortunes for the ones we have got isn't going to somehow create more.

PS I don't think the newly qualified doctors are 'paid fortunes'!

My dog Walker charges £17.50 for walking one dog, £15 an hour if she walks 3 or 4 together. She’s responsible, we have other so called ‘professional’ dog walkers who do group walks of 5 - 8 dogs at £12-15 an hour, I expect walkers in more wealthy areas charge more
Cleaners - £20 an hour.

The industrial action could be settled relatively easily if we had a government that was committed to maintaining and modernising our nhs. Instead, we have one that wants it privatised. They’ve successfully wrecked dentistry and social care by privatisation.

Iam64

My dog Walker charges £17.50 for walking one dog, £15 an hour if she walks 3 or 4 together. She’s responsible, we have other so called ‘professional’ dog walkers who do group walks of 5 - 8 dogs at £12-15 an hour, I expect walkers in more wealthy areas charge more
Cleaners - £20 an hour.

The industrial action could be settled relatively easily if we had a government that was committed to maintaining and modernising our nhs. Instead, we have one that wants it privatised. They’ve successfully wrecked dentistry and social care by privatisation.

Yes, quite.

I pay my cleaning lady £17.50 an hour - going up to £18 in the new year. Admittedly, she goes above and beyond basic cleaning. She is also a carer for another 'client' and is paid in the region of £20 per hour.

Junior doctors (a misleading title if ever there was one) are looking at what they call pay 'restoration', which is not really the same as a pay rise.

Lucy Dunn - a qualified doctor and social media editor for The Spectator, believes that if the government entered into serious pay negotiations, doctors would settle for less.

The old idiom, where there is a will, there is a way, is true here. I don't believe the government have a strong determination to overcome the obstacles because at heart they are not committed to state-funded healthcare, and the only thing that is holding them back from 'full-on' privatisation is the knowledge that there would be very strong resistance from a large section of the public and they would lose votes because of it.

I'm absolutely disgusted with all the doctors including consultants for striking. There's not one medical student that isn't aware of the salary of a junior doctor before qualifying. You accept the rate of pay or take a different career. Many people will die or suffer from delayed treatment because of them. My neice suffered for 14 days with an urgent condition requiring immediate surgery on a shattered knee. 14 days of terrible pain on morphine lying in a hospital bed. Nobody available to operate All on strike. Cancer patients having delayed treatment. The government should reduce their salary not increase it as punishment.

We are already in trouble because we don’t train enough, we over work and under pay. No wonder so many young doctors go abroad for better salary and terms and conditions
Add to that the contempt which some people express when discussing this strike and expect to lose more.

Medicine really isn’t ‘just ‘ a job but that doesn’t mean those employed in the nhs should be treated so badly

And all those agreeing with the strikes I hope none of you suffer a fall and break a hip leg or arm requiring urgent surgery and have to lie in pain for 14 days because of these strikes. You might feel differently then.

sazz1

And all those agreeing with the strikes I hope none of you suffer a fall and break a hip leg or arm requiring urgent surgery and have to lie in pain for 14 days because of these strikes. You might feel differently then.

No one will lie in pain for 14 days. Operations are happening. My DIL had an accident which needed minor surgery she was well looked after. She's going back to the hospital after Christmas.
Junior doctors deserve decent pay and working hours.

sazz1

And all those agreeing with the strikes I hope none of you suffer a fall and break a hip leg or arm requiring urgent surgery and have to lie in pain for 14 days because of these strikes. You might feel differently then.

You actually imagine that those of us who support the doctors have never thought of that! And still support the strike for the greater good?

My niece did in a Bristol hospital Mine was a genuine post see above. She posted every day from her hospital bed. I didn't lie.

sazz1

My niece did in a Bristol hospital Mine was a genuine post see above. She posted every day from her hospital bed. I didn't lie.

Urgent surgery is just that -urgent surgery. It is done asap. Some surgery cannot be done immediately. You didn't post about a single incident. You said any hip, leg or arm fracture-I assume your niece hadn't broken all three???
Some fracture surgery requires that the swelling subside before it can proceed.

The doctors were on strike for three days so the 14 days isn't anything to do with it.
industrial action by junior doctors is planned to take place, starting from 7am on Wednesday 20 December until 7am on Saturday 23 December 2023
Severe understaffing could be a cause. Which is why we should support the strikes..

Above for Glorianny

The problem of public sector pay is that it's a punch bag for govt spending. If doctors take 6 years to train, how on earth will they know, when they start, whether pay will have kept pace with inflation by the time they've qualified? Isn't that exactly what these strikes are about? Pay has diminished over 30% since 2010.
Obviously some compromise has to be reached, but offering 7% when they're asking for 30%+, is the start of the compromise by upping one and lowering the other.
Btw the strikes have cost many millions, which could have been put in the pay pot, months ago.

sazz1, in the past four weeks my NHS investigation/treatments involved - a two week referral. The investigation and further examinations resulted in me being down graded from 2 week rule to urgent. I had the necessary colonoscopy 10 days later at an additional Saturday clinic put on to ensure 2 week/urgent patients were seen. Staff were without exception skilled and with good patient skills.

My cardiology annual review was positive but my consultant arranged an update echocardiogram to make sure the meds I take are still the right ones. That took place within 3 weeks.

My GP diagnosed inguinal hernia which he wasn’t worried about but referred me to the surgeon. My GP warned me it could be a long wait. I was seen 3 weeks later at our local private hospital under the NHS.

I feel very fortunate and also confident that the nhs is functioning because of its dedicated workforce with no thanks to this awful government