Are our views always entrenched?

Missus that should have been. Stupid tablet/android/whatever you call the same thing.

GRANJURA Don't you dare miss his!

We need the odd poster or two with something between their ears.

Soop arguement escalated, things were said.

That is in answer to the original post.

Sorry it's late.

No.

...make the explanation as simple as possible, please. #dribblescoffeedownchin

It must be the anaesthetic that's still fuggin' my grey matter...haven't a clue what's going on here...am I the only one, I wonder!

I can't help looking back at the OP. Am I right in supposing this was not the expected outcome?

granjura, if you really do decide to leave now, do come back, even if under another name.

I don't think you can assume the "one person" referred to in the quote you give was you, jura. It certainly doesn't say it was you and that is not implied in the post at all.

Just saying

I'm hoping this is a case of mistaken understanding and that granjura simply means she is leaving this thread, not he whole forum. It is so sad when people leave or are driven away.

I do hope you don't go Granjura there are many people who will miss your posts if you do

Sorry to hear that Granjura , Hope you return one day .

Very best wishes across the miles .

granjura, you'll be missed...

Love the acronym, nanej - took me a minute though

Of course I was 'joking' about the boat- this was pretty obvious really.

I apologise to all, and you are quite right, all personal 'squabbles' should be kept off the Forum. However, this can be hard when one is misquoted totally as at the beginning of this thread

"I knew one person who said she would not attend a Church wedding because it was hypocrisy and she put her principles before her family's hurt feelings"

which is something I never ever said. What I said was the for our OWN wedding, we didn't want to base it on a lie, and that we enrolled the support of our wonderful Vicar to help some relatives see why this was important. The Vicar was indeed delighted to help, as he was sick and tired of being asked to perform like a Hollywood actor at show Church weddings - knowing full well that neither party was in any way or shape religious. I've attended 100s of Church weddings form family and friends, knowing that they are not religious, and without ever making my feelings known or the slightest hint of criticism. And I suppose, when one has very strong views, perhaps sometimes we do not hear what is being said, but what we think is being said with our own bias.
I recently received a whole set of accusations based on things I never ever said, but that the person perceived I said. For instance that saying that we should look at how to release family homes now occupied by single people for families, meant that I wanted to evict a relative. And so on - the list was endless. All this to illustrate how easily things can become distorted if we listen with our own prejudices, rather than really listen.

Best if I leave this Forum and I wish you all the very best. And hope that you will be able to listen to each other and hear what is actually being said, rather than what you want to hear, for whatever reason.

Peace and Bonne chance.

greatnan it would be interesting to see your reply to Grumppa's post of 23.13.07.

ICBA to carry on with these petty squabbles so not joining in this debate anymore!

Thank you Greatnan apology accepted. I hope all your worries get resolved and that you get to have a trouble free retirement.

Movedalot - I am sorry if I have ever misinterpreted one of your posts and I won't do it again.
I am tired of confrontation - I have enough worries in my real life without getting involved in cyber battles.
Peace and goodwill to our lovely GN ship and all who sail in her.
I have had a very long and relaxing snorkel - and just floating in the beautiful coral garden, surrounded by thousands of fish of every shape and colour, with only the sound of your own breathing, makes you feel very calm and puts everything into perspective.

I've often reached a mutually acceptable conclusion, if not resolution, in a spoken debate or found myself understanding the others point of view or vice versa. I rarely see that in forums. I certainly don't experience the level of (trying to be careful here in my choice if words but failing) hositily? belligerence? in face to face discussion. And on the rare occasions arguements get heated then we are more likely to try to de-escalate rather than the opposite which seems to happen on forums.

Thanks, Elegran. This thread has become entrenched, and not worth continuing with.

Discussions often have no resolution. The good thing about forum discussions like this is that you can go back and look at the several different points of view. If it were a spoken discussion, that would be much harder.

Good thinking, elegran. I'll take a look.

moved, I was just saying what my interpretation of HQ forum rules is. I really can't comment on your deleted posts as I didn't see them.

Re Moved's last point (if indeed it is her last point by the time I finish constructing my post!) This is one of the big disadvantages of forum discussion or debate...time lapses and people coming to or leaving the thread. So often we're having to read, interpret and unpick several different points of view and to try and add to the topic. It can all get disjointed. A point has been made but then another and another. In a complicated thread such as this one it is very difficult for all points raised to be following to some kind of resolution.

I imagine the reason this thread was reported (not by me - I gave my opinion of the standard of "debate" in open court, m'lud) was because it had become a slanging match, with people getting personal, and making veiled allusions, then open ones, to previous confrontations and to things which they knew of each other from other sources which the rest of us were unaware of. In other words, carrying old vendettas into the discussion.

My reaction was to abandon ship before it went up in flames, and a few others joined me in the lifeboat. That was probably why Granjura joked that people in bedsits could be put in a boat and sent out to sea, like us lot. Hope they can row!

I see that the aggro has set in again, which is no help to the homeless or anyone else. I suggest starting a new thread, free from the taints of this one, if anyone is really interested in calmly discussing suggestions for workable and non-punitive ways of helping those who need social accommodation without making things worse for those who already have some.

For instance - anyone out there with knowledge of the relative costs of traditional newbuild, flat-pack, and renovation/conversion? Of the planning aspects of community creation on new/conversion sites? On marketing change to those who fear their support systems (for the able as well as the vulnerable) would be lost if they left their present homes?

The plight of those trying to raise families in bedsits goes without saying, as does the welfare of the most vulnerable. No need to expound on those, they are a given. What about the rest? They have rights and expectations too, and those include secure tenancy of the home they have created and a reasonably predictable and steady rent.

Will repeat part of this post on a new thread. I hope it will attract thoughtful posters.