Do you want what Gove wants for your grandchildren?

Tables are useful but sometimes in the past they have so dominated the teaching of maths they have put kids off.
Hands up those of you who thinks maths is fun? And i bet you all know your tables.

We learnt tables up to 12 x 12 in our first year in primary school, by singing or chanting them every day. It was quite painless. When I was training to teach 7 - 11 year olds, we used Cuisenaire rods to teach place value. Children need to understand how tables are built up, but they haven't got time to go back to first principles every time they need an answer, so rote learning is needed too. Once they are learnt, preferably at a very early age, they are never forgotten, in my experience.
I did and do find maths fun - I love the number round on Countdown and now know my 75 times table!
I specialised in teaching maths to children with learning difficulties, and also volunteered to teach basic arithmetic as part of the Adult Literacy Scheme. I think having a teacher who really enjoys the subject can be very helpful.

Government ministers have been obsessed by learning tables, spelling and phonics for years.

When my children were at primary school in the late 1970s/early1980s I can remember Ministers getting their knickers in a twist about tables, spelling and phonics. Meanwhile I and my children recited tables in the car on the way to school ready for their tables test. I also tested their spelling, based on lists of words drawn up on phonic principles.

Now DGD is at school and once again, just like her parents and grandparents before her, she is learning tables and spellings on phonic principles.

I think ministers should spend less time pontificating and spend more time visiting schools and classrooms to see what children are actually being taught.

Flickety

Oh yes, Flickety! Everyone who has ever been to school is an expert. Might be a good idea if they all got a bit of hands on experience. And I include Gove in that statement.

JessM and Ariadne. Drawing on my own time at school and of more recent years as a School Governor yes it is my experience that we all benefit considerably when facing the person who is addressing us, so sitting in ranks or a horseshoe facing the front is still the best and only way I know of making contact with everyone in the class. Teachers moving around the classroom is fine and they always have done in my experience dating back many years. Jess you are so right the Secretary of State should not be involved with how children are seated in the classroom, but when those who should deal with these things in the lower eshelons fail to act; then the buck travels upward till it reaches its stopping point. Remember Harry Truman who had a notice on his desk the buck stops here.

As I said, everyone who has been to school, albeit 50 odd years ago, thinks him or herself an expert. And while I agree that being a school governor (been one) will provide a person with some insight, it cannot provide that person with any sort of deep knowledge of educational concepts and theories.

As Dave says, the ministerial role is to intervene when the "lower" echelons fail to deliver.

Agree with every bit of this. Freedom and learning to amuse themselves whilst not in the rigid constraints of school is beneficial for children.

On Thursday we are joining my GDs school on a whole school family trip from Tooting to Littlehampton. Not an easy thing to do in this day & age of H&S etc & unhelpful Network Rail (only 2 years can go by train, in the old days they hired a whole train). It will be a wonderful collection of children, a diverse range of colour, race, creed & wealth, on the beach that day, all playing together. It will be a day of fun and of unscripted learning which I bet they will always remember. I wonder how this kind of trip will fit into the brave new world of future.

Some great posts here, especially from Mamie, Bags and Greatnan - thanks. I have many friends & family who are teachers, some have been quite ill with stress and one is leaving the profession as she feels it's become almost dishonest, that getting the results the head thinks the school should will be done by fair means or foul.
I worked as a learning mentor in a secondary school in a deprived area, I saw the homes some of the students came from and the struggle it took for them to get themselves to school at all - only to be suspended the moment they did for not having the right shoes or tie. I've seen children who are hungry and for whom the breakfast club we ran made such a difference to their chances through the day, only to see the finances scrapped. These are the real barriers to learning and we are piling them higher not breaking them down and I feel for these young people and their lack of prospects.

Cagsy - it seems not enough has changed. When I was teaching remedial classes at the Catholic High School in Ellesmere Port in 1973, one of my pupils came in looking gaunt and exhausted. He had slept in the bus shelter all night with his mother, as his father had got very drunk and thrown them out. I arranged for the school canteen to give him some breakfast and asked the Head if he could have a sleep in the medical room. The Head, who had only ever taught in a highly academic Christian Brothers grammar school before his appointment to this large comprehensive school, looked at him in disgust and said 'Where's your tie, Smith?' He also refused to act when one of my 13-year old pupils told me she was being abused by her father and uncle - apparently, it was unthinkable that a good Catholic father would behave like that.
However, the Sixth Form was doing very well, no doubt preparing them very well for the world of work.

Cagsy and Greatnan - I was moved by both your stories, and now need a cheering cup of coffee. I don't understand the opposition expressed by some folks to schools providing breakfast and dinner for children. The evidence about the impact of a decent diet on learning is not controversial is it. I agree, no child should be sent to school without breakfast, but so many have been, and continue to be. Neglect, emotional abuse, exposure to violence all go hand in hand with poor school attainment. How can children learn if they're hungry, tired and worried about what's happening at home. The gap between those of us who can and do meet our children's basic needs, and those who don't has grown. I wonder if Michael Gove really means his recent comments about providing breakfast and a balanced, nutritious mid day meal. Who will pay for it. My view is we would be better spending what money we have as a country on providing breakfast and dinner, to be eaten at a table, with adults and children sitting together than on fighting wars in places like Iraq and Afghanistan. I am ashamed of the priorities our governments demonstrate. The news last night was about cut backs in the NHS and the opposition of Cameron to any reduction in the nuclear deterrent. I don't mean to hijack an education thread - but that's just another example of how unrepresentative our elected representatives are.

Amen lam64, and why fewer and fewer people are engaging in party politics, and I speak as someone who was a member of a party for nearly 30 years. The lack of people voting has nothing to do with apathy much more about frustration and even disgust at what our politics seems to have become. It's hard not to become too despairing, I just know that on the whole people are good and we'll find a way somehow.
I'd definitely vote for some of the people who have posted on this thread!

Gadabout, what a lovely picture you conjure and I'm sure it came well up to your expectations, given the exceptional weather. The roads around here were busy with coaches full of youngsters, heading in the direction of Alton Towers; yesterday, My DiL was taking a load of Y7s to AT from Hampshire. It must have been absolutely heaving - not great weather for queuing for rides.
Iam64 and Cagsy, I'm in agreement with both of you. I despair of politicians who are increasingly out of touch. Why is Gove getting away with so many damaging 'reforms'. Now Clegg and his henchman Laws have come out with proposals which out-Gove Gove.
If I hadn't been sure about ditching the Lib Dems (after long and faithful service) before, I am now absolutely sure I did the right thing.

Annodomini I couldn't agree more, I was a member of the LDs as I say for 30 years, campaigned, leafleted, attended conference but not any more. I'm really sad but I think they'll get wiped out at the next election

I see we're from the same region, Cagsy. I have pm'd you.