Moral dilemma

They still have the right to appeal and if that fails can appeal to the president. Like you I am against the death penalty but in this case I do have mixed feelings.

Another one here who is opposed to the death penalty - but just occasionally, I do wonder about murderous/rapists (usually men) who are released several years into a life sentence, and murder and rape again. (one in the news very recently)

I think they should get life and it should mean life, no parole. I cannot agree with killing whatever the circumstances

Bet you would if it was your daughter who died as a result of such gross treatment.

Imagine the suffering of her poor parents!

Imagine the fear so many women must feel!

Society is best rid of such foul specimens.

Death would be to quick and easy. If they have to spend the rest of their lives in prison they will suffer far more.

I want people like them to suffer.

Call me vindictive, cruel, vicious.....I don't care. Rapists and paedophiles (and I link them together deliberately) deserve and get no sympathy from me.

They should hang, without a doubt. And they should be afraid - not a day to day fear of reprisals - the fear of actually having to die because of what they had done.

Perhaps it will send a message to the one in four men in India who admit to having committed rape. It was good to see the wave of protest throughout India -a glimmer of hope for Indian women?

My way they suffer more. Imagine being locked up in an Indian prison knowing that you're going to be there for the rest of your life. No chance of reprieve. Nothing to look forward too. Total hopelessness.

My feeling is that if I caught men doing that to one of my daughters and I had a gun, I'd shoot them. On the other hand, death, except to stop them in the act, is too good for them. I would not want them to suffer by spending the rest of their lives in jail. I would want them to be obliterated, put out, finished.

What shocks me most is that I'm not shocked by those feelings. I feel that those feelings are correct. I deliberately have not used the word 'right'. Self defence is not wrong, and getting rid of such harm as those cruel, torturing bastards is societal self defence in my view.

We've just watched the Channel 4 news and had exactly the same discussion. If it had been our daughter I cannot write down what OH would have done to the penetrators. And we have always opposed capital punishment and indeed still do.

I'm just relived that whatever happens is a matter for a different jurisdiction.

I feel nothing for the four men. I do however wish futilely that I could do something for the girls parents. I also would like to know what the men 's last wishes or regrets were as per another thread. Do they wish they hadn't done or just hadn't been caught. What makes these people like they are . I know that repressive sexual attitudes have a lot to do with it but normal people don't think like that do they? A woman is raped every twenty minutes n India.

I don't know the perpetrators of this terrible crime or their circumstances. I am not looking to make excuses..there are none but if there are any mitigating issues then they need to be take into account. Have they been abused/misused as children/teens etc. Are they street kids with no moral compass or young men from supportive homes??

I do not think an eye for an eye is a good way to live so I do not support death penalties but punishment/consequence need to match the severity of the crime. So a life term is appropriate, for whole of the life not just a few years.

Something is rotten when a woman or girl is raped every twenty minutes in India and 1 in 4 men admit they have raped. This gang treated her appallingly then threw her into the road, leaving her for dead. Hanging them won't bring her back. Violence that leads to more violent retribution doesn't compute in my head. If it was my daughter, though, I'm sure I would want to kill them with my bare hands. We are left with that dilemma.

It keeps happening, around the world. There is no culture that is rape-free. We criticise the USA because some states still have the death penalty. These are such difficult issues to tussle with. I can't call for the death penalty in one country and not in another.

The only mitigation I can think of is that they have grown up in a country where women are not valued. Many women are raped - this poor victim happened to die as well.
I do not think for one minute that this excuses them, but it might go some way towards explaining the way they thought about her.

I have this ambivalence whenever I think of Ian Brady, Fred and Rose West, Peter Sutcliffe or Ian Huntley. I don't agree with the death sentence because I think it brutalises society but life must definitely mean life - and if they choose to kill themselves, so be it.

hanging them is far too quick and easy, maybe a few mins of panic and fright (I have no idea how long it takes to hang someone) but how ever long it is , it is nothing in comparison to what that young girl and her friend suffered, they must have been so frightened, no where to escape, no one to help them.... it really doesn't bare thinking about.

Like Penstemmon I ponder other factors. And I've said this before - when I read of something like this - I too find what these men did abhorrent and I cannot begin to contemplate the suffering of the young woman who was raped and left for dead. But then I sometimes think - what if one of the men was my son? Would I hope he could be rehabilitated, find redemption, what about the role of the society he was born in and raised in? Would I (still) love him?

My thoughts stem in part from my observations of the mothers e.g. in certain communities in countries like South Africa where there is a huge macho gang culture, and rape I hesitate to say - is almost commonplace, and young boys get caught up in that - and I feel for the mothers who try so hard to raise their sons as good people in a society often beset by problems of poverty, lack of good male role models etc. Breaks my heart.

I'm with you on this one bags

I think a fit punishment would be to castrate them. That might make other potential rapists think before they act. It would be a lifetime punishment without the expense of locking them up and if the shame causes them to take their own lives, then that is up to them. It is such a hideous crime and is obviously part of a deeper macho culture. HIt them where it hurts, say I and I am surprised at my own vindictive feelings!

wisewoman my immediate reaction is to agree with you re castration!

I did hear today on Radio 4 that the victim (on the day she died) said that her wish was that they should be executed.

In the same programme (I think it was PM with Eddie Mair) a woman in the same city was saying "if you go on the bus you expect to be groped". This was said with total acceptance, both Mr P and I were [shocked] and at the way that the speaker seemed to think that this was "normal".

That sort of society has a very long way to go! Until last year I would regularly go around London by tube, bus, whatever. I certainly didn't take it as read that I might be groped, and even going down the age line, I don't expect the women younger than me did either!

If it is generally accepted that women travelling on public transport should "expect to be groped", and 1 in 4 men admits to having committed rape, then there is something intrinsically wrong with that society.

Hanging may satisfy the desire for retribution but it will only add to the brutality of societies where life is cheap and a woman's life is cheapest.

phoenix eloethan - my daughter who travels on a packed Northern Line Tube every day, is on the alert for being groped, because it has happened to her more than once.

I like the idea of castration.....esp if they use a blunt knife and no anaesthetic.

My 27 year old daughter is travelling in India (with her boyfriend) right now. She is in regular contact via the internet and said she has her 'do I feel unsafe' antenna on full alert. She was prepared for, but is overwhelmed by the poverty and caste system. They have hired a driver for their week trip to various special places, and aren't using public transport, for which I feel greatly relieved.
What we do with rapists and murderers is a real moral dilemma isn't it. 30 plus years of exposure via work to people affected by, or who have committed these crimes hasn't led me to change my view that killing people just isn't right. I understand the comments here about what if it was your daughter, and I accept some people feel the death penalty is appropriate and have a right to that view. Increasingly, I find myself feeling that some people are bad, and whilst they may have had childhood experiences that 'explain' the path they take, it doesn't excuse it. Grannyknot's point about the possible influences on men who rape, and how we'd feel if our son/granson behaved in that way is a good one. I wonder if it's part of ageing, I wish it could be wisdom, but whatever it is, my ability to sympathise/empathise/excuse people who hurt others so badly is diminishing.
I agree, life should mean life for dangerous people