Is Jenni Murray right about transgender?

In answer to your question Grannypiper, yes I think online is very dangerous. I'm a writer and this story, which happened last year but the partner has just been jailed for 34 years, really affected me. Poor, poor woman. Loneliness really is our silent killer.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4255008/Why-bright-older-women-fall-appalling-conmen.html

Physical gender is not an either or thing. A % of babies are born with indeterminate gender. This may be apparent at birth - external genitalia not obviously one or other. Or it may become apparent years later - no uterus for example. It's a continuum, with most people falling at one end or the other. This is referred to as "intersex" Sometimes the cause is chromosomal - but not always.
Sexuality is also a continuum - with some people having a strong preference for one kind of partner, and some much less bothered.
Sexual identity - which gender you think and feel you are, does seem to be something that is quite different to gender and sexuality.
I think that people whose sexual identity does not match the body they find themselves in need understanding and support. Of course, as in any group, there may be a few criminals. However they tell us nothing about the vast majority do they?
Those making the transition who want surgery are usually required to live successfully as the other gender for quite a while before doctors agree to operate. This means they have to try to dress and behave as a woman, live as a woman, and they start taking female hormones. I think that during this period they are going through a kind of puberty as a woman. So they may be adult but they are also teenage girls trying to find their own way of being a woman. (or vice versa but this thread seems less concerned about female to male)
It is very difficult for many and there is a high suicide rate.
So Happy International Women's Day to you MargaretXYZ I know you have been a member of GN for several years. And to everyone else. I hope you will extend the hand of friendship and sisterhood to anyone who is struggling with their identity or who has made a big change in their life.
And to clarify - Ankers you seemed to imply that JM was a bitter woman because she could not have children. (Unless you were randomly referring to some other woman) I can assure you that this is not the case. I was her antenatal teacher when she was a young news reader, pregnant with her first child. She and her partner used to squash into my not very big lounge with 4 or 5 other couples, sit on the floor and practice their breathing.

Thank you JessM for a sane and sensible post and for putting the record straight.

Ankers - no, of course we don't (do we? I don't!), which is why I said "all cubicle toilets". They have these in my former workplace which was a secondary school, and it works very well - no problems with 'overhearing' - well, no more than in the Ladies, anyway! There's a reminder on the back of the loo doors to make sure "all is as it should be" before opening the door though (skirts not tucked into knickers, zips at half-mast!)

And to clarify - Ankers you seemed to imply that JM was a bitter woman because she could not have children.

eh? I didnt even know she didnt have children!
Have you got the wrong poster?

Retrolady, I dont know which post you are referring to

Great post JessM

Who did you mean when you wrote this then?
Add comment | Report | Private message Ankers Mon 06-Mar-17 08:25:19
She cannot have children of her own because she was told that she did not have enough female hormones. So they adopted.
Is she a woman? Of course she is, as is plain to see by everyone with half an eye.

Physical gender is not an either or thing. A % of babies are born with indeterminate gender

That is what I thought. But a poster[cannot be bothered to scroll back and find out who, could have been Anya] said that it is determined. Either XX or XY.

You cannot both be right. Or can you?

As there seems to be a bit of an obsession with toilets (have people never seen unisex ones?) I have used the gents when the queues for the ladies were too long. I managed fine, wasn't raped and didn't see anything I shouldn't have. Quite a few women did this, I wonder if the men felt threatened?

MB nad JessM

The end of my previous post says
I know a woman who can run rings around some men,physically, her husband included

It is most certainly not JM!

Even if I were to know JM, which I most certainly do not, I would hardly be putting her medical stuff on gransnet.

JessM. That still does not explain the "bitter" bit.

The woman I know is not bitter. Far from it.

trisher. Where did you queue for a unisex toliet? Somewhere safe? And what time of day is it open?
Is it in a shop? Well-lit?
No drunks around?

Would you be ok going into my town toilet, open late at night? By yourself? A young girl? etc etc

Sorry, Ankers
It bears out perhaps the point I made elsewhere about how using he/she without specifying who one means can lead to confusion.
( Especially when there may be posts in between)

Fair enough.

But I am hardly going to say cousin/auntie/friend/sister etc about something so personal.
I think I write enough personal stuff on here as it is.

I did smile though when "a woman I know" turns into Jenni Murray! The "woman I know" would be very flattered indeed if she knew!

We have unisex toilets at the Centre where I go for Art History and Literature. Within the "Toilet" area there is one Disabled cubicle (and of course they are unisex) one cubicle nominally for men - so don't get narked if they have left the seat up! - but which any of us will you when needs must, one cubicle labelled for both and 2 cubicles nominally for women. The cubicles which are not specifically for men are different only in that they do not contain sanitary towel disposal bins.
We all had a laugh when the labels went up on the doors because beforehand nobody cared either way, but they had been advised that because the office staff were younger than us retired old dears and therefore possibly premenopausal, the disposal bins had to be installed.
Is anybody bothered? No, but this is not the sort of place you would be.
Public loos must of be all-cubicle if they are to be mixed. Frankly I have often felt sorry for men having to use communal urinals and when I was teaching in secondary schools the "whiff" just going past the door was enough to make anyone retch. ?

Ankers My comment was in reply to your post where you said: "But we don't pee standing next to our dads [apologies for sounding coarse.] I reiterate my point that, of course, shared toilets must be all-cubicle, as MawB said above. I agree with her about the "whiff" too. Public urinals seems to be well past their sell-by date. Don't know why they are still being built, apart from making the queues shorter in the men's loos. I know quite a few blokes, including DH and DSs who prefer to go in the cubicle whatever their purpose. I wouldn't like to pee in front of another woman; why did urinals ever seem like a good idea? (Slightly off-topic, I know ...)

Jess that has all changed, that is how it used to be, now men just say they are a woman, ta da,access to female space.

Self identification is how it is now.

As for the small percentage of intersex individuals, they are a tiny minority who have asked repeatedly not to be lumped in with trans, they have an abnormality.

As a race we have 2 legs, some people may be born with one or three legs but we are still a race with two legs.

Is it. Have you experienced this personally? I did read the thread through at some speed, so you'll forgive me if I missed this.

I linked to the gender recognition bill earlier, the second hearing is in March, it was due on the 24 th of February but has been postponed. This would make gender, not sex, the protected characteristic.

I have experience of men who are autogynephiles which a lot of the late male transitioners are, they transition as they get a sexual thrill from dressing as the opposite sex. There are some fantastic transwomen who speak out about this like Miranda Yardley who is quoted in the Jenni Murray article.

You are describing an old school transexual, note the term sex is used. They are now transgender so if they have a penis it becomes a female penis, no need for surgery. They also become "lesbians" and harass female xx lesbians who will not consider them as sexual partners.

Self identification is the new norm. 80% of transwomen are intact males, no surgery. They commit crime at the exact same rate as men, funny that. Males are responsible for over 90% of all crime and 98% of sexual crime. Women and girls need, they deserve, sex segregated areas.

If we lose the right to have sex as the protected characteristic then that is the end to single sex facility's, game over.

The Brownies now accept "girls" based on gender self identification and we have lost the right to compete with our own sex in the Olympics, women are already losing sporting events to male bodied people. This has already happened, if the bill goes through then you cannot legally stop any man from entering a female area, or claiming a female award.

Transpeople deserve equal rights and opportunities, love, support and acceptance, but not at the expense of the entire female sex.

No i didn't Nina are you in the habit of putting words into people's mouths?

You need to distinguish between RL and your 'characters' ...but of course I might be mistaken and you might publish your research results.

Anya, I think I'm too young for this group. I haven't reached cranky old bag status yet. What's your secret?

Nina i have lived all over the U.K and Europe. I am so glad you have made it this far without having to suffer violence but plenty haven't. Online bullying is awful but can be turned off

Do you know one of the worst things about all this? The awful, casual sexism and ageism that Jenni Murray and other women have thrown at them.

No one ever calls a man a cranky old bag, there are thousands and thousands of terms of abuse for women and only a handful for men.

nina, if you're female then one day you will be a cranky old bag too, hopefully you will be treated with respect.