Is Jenni Murray right about transgender?

I think Rigby and myself are talking about TRAs. They are doing a lot of damage to transpeople who just want to quietly get on with their lives, like the lecturer I was dealing with last week who was thrilled with her new identity card. Not a cis word mentioned

x post

Ankers, Google 'Mermaids' and 'Terfs'
I'm sure your pc will be safe.

Lynnie yes - I just couldn't be bothered to type out ' trans activisits' every time. They are trying to hijack the whole debate for nefarious reasons of their own - some of us believe that some of them have a very very sordid agenda as to why they support self-identification as a means of free access to women only spaces - and some of the most rabid still have penises - the weapon that has subjugated women forever. Conspiracy theorist? Moi?

Don't get me started on Mermaids

Rigyby46, I am a cis female not afraid of sharing sacred space with others who collectively fight for the equality of all women.

Linnieg, Transgender women never ask to sit above. Your comments about years of male privilege show you have little understanding of the trans experience. For most trans women it's more akin to years of forced misgendering.

Feminism needs to stop failing trans women. I'm not sure how their exclusion improves our status as cis women or makes us collectively more free.

And speaking of hijacking Rigby...

I can see the issue with terfs.
Mermaids on the other hand, at very short glance and face value, looked reasonable.

Rigby and Lynnie - I can see the issue with trans activists.

Frodo, why mention the word cis?

I'm sure I have the same experience of transgender as they have of 'cis' gender. That would make us equal, no?

Frodo, actually I dont think I choose to engage thank you.

'Because they know it teases' Rigby

Hey - let's talk about world peace, the middle east, starving children - anything real will do. People are who they are and deserve respect (unless they are causing harm to to others) and all this insane conversation makes me want to despair.

I read an article a while ago about transgender an evolution of mankind, the other controversial debate was the heavy consumption of street drugs in the 60s onwards adapting generations of brain make up - it was all a bit way out but it was interesting to read

Luckygirl spot on! My head is reeling with new terminology.

And for the record, I am a woman, NOT a cis-woman. I hate being put in a box! Too much of it done here in N Ireland I am comfortable with my gender and in my skin. If anyone feels they need to transition from a man to a woman (or vice versa) fine. Their choice. Affects no one but themselves. I am happy to go with their decision. But imposing political nomenclature on those who are content to be who they were born is not on, IMHO.

Mermaids? Terfs? WTF? Excuse my language.

The law may be changed so that a woman is anyone who identifies as a woman, no surgery, no hormones, just anyone who may feel like a woman. As 98% of sexual violence is carried out by males then I would prefer that toilets and changing rooms are segregated by sex, not the social construct that we call gender. A woman is an adult human female, not an idea inside a mans head. Some transwomen have hard times, but that doesn't mean that all women should redefine themselves and give up sex segregated areas.

There are countries where women do not venture outside because they have no access to sex segregated toilets, bear that in mind before you give women's rights away.

As for cis women, I do not identify as a woman, I am a biological woman, that's the only fact that makes me a woman.

I identify as a book lover, a knitter and star trek fan.

Women and men can wear any clothes they like and have any personality they like, that is what we should be fighting for. We shouldn't be defining womanhood by a narrow stereotype, it's sexist and backward.

A transwoman deserves all the rights and support that are due to all citezans, they should not be able to appropriate and redefine my sex though.

The law may be changed so that a woman is anyone who identifies as a woman, no surgery, no hormones, just anyone who may feel like a woman

Where does it say this, and who is saying it?

Lucky I don't really understand your post. What do you mean?If you don't like this thread, you know what to do, don't you? Why is this an insane conversation? Some of us are interested in this issue - it's pretty insulting to call it an insane conversation. There are many theads on GN I'm not the slightest bit interested in or that I'm completely about why people want to discuss certain issues but I don't go on and tell them it's an insane conversation.

Look: women are women; men are men; lesbians are lesbians; gays are gays; transgender people are transgender people etc. etc.

That is fine. But when any of those groups of people start start telling others what they are then it is not fine - it is oppressive and insane. I am happy for any individual to call themselves whatever they want; and they must afford me (and everyone else) the same courtesy.

Why am I on this thread? Because a well-respected and thoughtful broadcaster is facing demands that she be sacked simply because she has expressed an opinion. What sort of insidious mafia is generating this sort of anti-democratic demand? We are right to be concerned.

I have a daughter who is transgender (born biologically male). She has been stating that she is a girl since she could speak, and before then she would put a cloth on her head, which we discovered when she learned to speak, was her 'long hair'. Fortunately, she received treatment before male puberty had set in, and now, ten years later, she feels, acts, looks and sounds like a 'real woman'. Comments made by anyone which suggest that she can't be a 'real woman' are devastatingly hurtful to her. I see her as my daughter, which she is. She obviously can't have children, but many 'real women' can't,for various reasons. Medical research strongly suggests that the brains of 'trans-people'more resemble the brain of the gender they perceive themselves to be, rather than their so-called'biological' gender, though this research isn't yet conclusive. It is so important to be sensitive to the immense amount of pain you can cause to a trans-person by viewing their situation as merely psychological, because it is becoming increasingly likely that something physical is going on in the structure of the brain itself, to cause these feelings of gender dysphoria. Let's try to be compassionate, rather than focusing on the right to 'free speech'.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.