Is Jenni Murray right about transgender?

Well, the term 'cis-gender' has made it into the Oxford Dictionary as of 2013 so perhaps it's time to start respecting other people's preferences in the matter.
Cisgender was also added to the Oxford English Dictionary in 2013, defined as "designating a person whose sense of personal identity corresponds to the sex and gender assigned to him or her at birth (in contrast with transgender)."
From Wikipedia

Respect the preferences of the majority of women who dislike it or the preferences of the minority that pin it on them?

I don't care what dictionary it's in, I am respectful with the words I use when talking about transwomen etc, always use the right pronoun - so WTF shouldn't they ( and it's really the TA) brigade not give us the same respect? Because it's bloody men defining the world as they see fit with no respect for women as they have been doing forever from their position of male privilege.

Lynnie - cross posts.

janea. Who are the women or group of women who are calling themselves cis women. How rude!

Mainly it's bloody TA transwomen who are doing that Ankers - they also believe you can be a woman with a penis

Without getting into the whole gender question, I feel this poses a wider question, i.e.can anybody truly empathise with someone else if they have not shared their experience?
Can we empathise with women who have struggled against prejudice if we personally have not experienced it? Can we truly feel the pain of bereavement if we have not suffered it?
I think,there are some arguments for both sides, but an awareness of a woman/girl's fight for equality is something anybody with a shred of humanity can appreciate.
Sometimes the experience may be different but the feelings generated are the same.
You don't have to be black to be against racism but if you have experienced any sort of discrimination are you not more sensitive to its repercussions and the effects on others?

This is an unfortunate discussion. Of course transgender women are women. Of course there are many layers to what entails someone's gender. Of course there are people who are very feminine or very masculine from all genders.

Gender identity is fluid. Girls in some cultures are raised as boys until they reach puberty. Are they not women? Many women don't get monthly cycles and can't have kids. Are they not women?

You'd think women would be more welcoming and appreciative of people finding their true sense of self. Why do we hold on to what we perceive is ours and ours alone (being birthed the gender that matches our gender identity as a woman)?

There is no community more subject to violence and discrimination than transgender women. Get off your high horse and have some compassion for a very vulnerable community. How can we validate their existence and identities so people will stop fucking killing them?? Definitely not by participating in the kind of ignorance running rampant in this thread.

I am fully supportive of trans women to live their lives free of bigotry and hatred. However, that does not mean that they have the right to usurp someone else's biological reality. There are safe spaces that have been fought for and awarded by law because of biological prejudice towards women that cannot simply be identified out of. Recognising the history of oppression of women by men has to be part of the trans women's recognition of boundaries on their part. Imposing nomiture such as CIS and TERF on people that have a biological based understanding of sex based oppression as opposed to a gender based oppression is key to finding compromise

This sums up perfectly my position - I wish I'd written it

Granmary18 I agree with you!

lynne rigby and ankers

My point was that if a term is in the Oxford Dictionary it has become an accepted term. There is nothing 'rude' about it.
It is not saying that anyone has to call themselves a cis-woman.
It's simply a descriptive term which distinguishes women who identify with the gender assigned to them at birth, in contrast to trans women, who don't.
No different really from describing yourself as homosexual or heterosexual.

Frodo - well I don't know where to start with what you've posted - are you a man or a transwoman? You have seen the mysogynistic hatred being directed JM by some of the transcommunity I take it? I'll just take me and my ignorance back on my high horse shall I just look a good little sweet cis woman?

Why are they usurping. Are they not joining? Apparently not. Only a certain type of transwomen can join the female fraternity it seems. Get ready with the tick box.

Which safe spaces are you meaning?

Recognising the history of oppression of women by men has to be part of the trans women's recognition of boundaries on their part

No it doesnt. Ask most women, and I bet they dont recognise it either, nor care.

I dont understand your last sentence.

How non loving and judgemental.

janea - couldn't agree less. It's seen by many many women as a very loaded term - There is a really really huge debate about the term. It's not at all like describing myself as heterosexual

Oh Ankers - think about the example JM gave about the transwoman vicar <sighs>

Crikey! So many high horses out there!

janea fair enough, but you said about respecting other peoples' preference.
It is a term which means, "I am something, which you are not or will never be".
A bit like saying "I am rich" ie implying that you are not in a put down way.

If something is in the Oxofrd Dictionary, doesnt it just mean that the word exists?

Rigby46, I dont understand your last post at all.

Oh you mean safe spaces?
I am beginning to see what a poster meant about JM being a special snowflake.
Only certain types of women can become transwomen dont you know!

Save a space on that horse please Rigby46.

And we hold on tight to what we 'perceive' is ours and ours alone because it's been fought for over many years. Yes transwomen are welcome to sit with us. But not above us because of their years of enjoying male privilege!

I think there may be a big difference between TAs and "ordinary" transwomen, and it is important to distinguish which group people are talking about?

Eh?

Yes - I've tried to be very careful about that as it's the TAs who are making all the running and who as a group are very very mysogynist. They have some very radical views as well on children and transitioning - very scarey

Would someone like to say more about TAs?
I didnt want to google something which might corrupt my computer. Thanks.