What do you think now?

Our present problems should not have been seen as a 'challenge to the UK sovereignty', since back in 1971, the then Tory Government accepted the progress towards greater social, political and economic union.

Again, on page 8 (para 28) of the White Paper, it is stated: "But we will be joining at a moment when we shall be able to influence the process of development. This will also be true of progress towards economic and monetary union."

Can you please explain where, in your second paragraph (the excerpt from the white paper) where it mentions anything about social and political union...or was this written in invisible ink?

The vast majority who voted to enter the Common Market did not vote for a Federal European Union and have been voicing their anxieties and asking for a referendum since Maastricht.

Oops! Previous post intended for Railman

Absolutely Joelsnan well said.

I voted Leave. I would do so again.
I don’t agree with another vote - the people already voted.
I just hope TM isn’t PM for much longer - a Remainer plus Olly Robbins et al was never going to produce a true Brexit.
I hope a Leaver becomes PM soon and takes control of the mess TM has presided over.

What price democracy then?

Brexit Means Brexit.

The politicians should just get on with the process and stop putting their own agendas, self-interests, power grabbing ambitions and political aims etc etc ahead of the country's decision and wellbeing.

I would still vote to leave - they have proved themselves to be self seeking undemocratic bullies.

John Major refused a referendum over Maastricht

Blair and Brown refused a referendum before signing the Lisbon Treaty.

Lib Dems wanted a referendum over Lisbon Treaty

They are all hypocrites over their referendum stance in both denying the result and calling for a 2nd referendum ' Peoples Vote' which is a 2nd referendum!

When did the Lib Dems change their opinion over holding referendums concerning the EU ? Certainly not accepting the result.?

In 2008 the Lib Dems were so entrenched in it's anti view over the Lisbon Treaty the MP's walked out of Parliament with Ed Davey because they were refused an amendment for a debate calling for a referendum on Britain's continuing membership of the EU.

Fast forward only 8 years to the 2016 referendum and 10 years to the total U Turn by the Lib Dems in 2018 when it refuses to accept a result that would have once backed ' the then ' Lib Dem position something must have changed the Lib Dem position massively.

Brown signed off the b----y Lisbon Treaty but at that time the Lib Dems called for a Referendum over our continued membership fast forward 8 years and it was the devils work holding a Referendum .

Labour/Lib Dems and Conservatives have all said at some stage the voters would have the chance of a Referendum over the UK and it's membership in the EU, although to listen and watch those who once said that now back peddling like crazy you could easily forget their hypocrisy.

I would still vote Leave. After the behaviour of the EU towards us over the last 2 years I am even more determined to leave.

We had a referendum and it was an advisory referendum. A responsible government, seeing that the country was split almost 50/50 would have gone back to the EU to try to negotiate a better deal than David Cameron had been offered.

Instead, our irresponsible PM declared that the result would be enacted, ignoring the fact that it was won by lies, and he then resigned.

TM took on the poisoned chalice and immediately made life impossible for herself by adopting the stupid "red lines".

OK, TM, we all recognise that you have worked hard and got a deal which may very well be the best achievable deal but it still would leave the country far, far worse off than we are now as full voting members of the European Community.

It is time for you to accept this and own up to the fact that brexit of any kind would leave the country in a worse state than we are now, revoke Article 50 and apologise to the other 27 countries of the EU for the waste of time and money that they have needlessly entailed because of this brexit folly and humbly beg for the UK to be allowed to REMAIN in the EU.

Varian I agree with you 100%

Solid remainder not rabid but I rather liked the easy trade and travel.
It's clear the leavers were sold a pack of unrealistic cherry picking lies, more fool them, it's also clear that any "deal" is going to be with the EU pulling the strings.

I don't like that one bit it's the worst of both worlds and anyone who thinks no deal is going to be a picnic is in for a big shock

Varian - well said.

Davidhs
Would you elaborate on the unrealistic cherry picking lies that we fool leavers were sold.
Please relate these to the Maastricht and Lisbon Treaties that most leavers formed their decision to leave in.
Thank you

If 52% of Lemmings vote to go over a cliff, shouldn't we have another vote to stop them?

Joel'snan

Most leavers voted to keep migrants out and hadn't heard of the Lisbon Treaty or Maastrict you have a gross overestimate their reasons

Cherry picking. All "associates" of the EU, Norway , Switzerland and several smaller states have trade deals regulated strictly by the EU to ensure nobody get an advantage over full members. JRM, Davies, Boris and the others wanted the ability to make deals outside that regulation.
That is cherry picking

The EU are NEVER going to give the UK that unilateral ability, that is the current position, a Norway deal or nothing. That was always their position make no mistake any trade deal will have to be approved by the EU.

Just wanted to make a point about a European Army. If we stay in the EU as full members, we can veto it and it would never happen (it's nonsense to talk about forced conscription). Macron is only talking about it now because it's long been on France and Germany's agenda - as soon as we're out, they'll push for it to defend Europe's interest against Russia (now that the USA has stepped back from keeping Russia in check). Our leaving means that a European army is more of a certainty.

Obviously NOT since i live in France and it will affect me adversely .....................

So it really is "The Hotel California"!!

I am no Lemming, not an idiot or any other derogatory term used against anyone who voted LEAVE, favoured by the Remoaners.

Nor would I ever wish to humbly beg to be allowed to remain in "The Club".

As I commented earlier - what price DEMOCRACY?

The people have voted - that IS the People's Vote, is it not!

Extraordinary - the health secretary Matt Hancock will not commit to saying that people will not die due to supply chain problems of medicines if we crash out with no deal but still people here are baying for it. What on earth has the EU done to people personally that they will actually let people die rather than continue with the status quo - which everyone but everyone who is in the know agrees is better than any other deal? What is worth innocent people and children dying unnecessarily for, please elaborate - and who exactly you are prepared to sacrifice?

VIOLETTE
You'll get grilled by immigration and customs if you come here, full body searches, the lot. I wouldn't be at all surprised if you were put through the scanner.
This is your future.

Davidhs
Did you ask the leavers if they voted to keep the migrants out or is that just yours and other remain voters deciding what you consider to be he most contentious reason for an alternative vote to yours.
You have failed to explain using Maastrich and Lisbon treaties where the cherry picking relates to these.
The associate trade deals you refer to do not tie these countries exclusively to world trade on EU terms only on trade with the EU. I cannot imagine any non EU country (thinking Canada) would sign a trade deal with the EU and also sign away it’s ability to trade with any other country in the world unless it is approved by the EU..,daft.

Goodness me Pepine you're jumping the gun a bit. Medicine? Is that all you're worried about? They'll still be available on Amazon, made in China.

Pepine I am prepared to sacrifice JRM, Gove, Corbyn,
Abott and Costello, oops, McDonnel, Soubry.......the list is quite long.

Pepine
Can you please elaborate on what was said because as far as I had heard there should be no problem with obtaining medication there are other sources that can be mobilised should shortages occur with the EU. Don’t forget that the EU based companies will not want to lose U.K. customers and vice versa, the U.K. pharmaceutical industries supply medicine to countries within the EU and they will wish to maintain their supplies.

Joelsnan all the people I personally know who voted leave have mentioned getting Britain back from foreigners & stopping immigrants. None of them really understand the economic implications positive or negative..not sure I do fully so not a big criticism! And many think it will bring an end to bureaucracy!!