Have I just lost a friend?

Well said BluePizzaWalking.....no one knows how hard it is mentally for someone else. I live with a husband I don’t get on with ....and now am trapped.....physically ill...mentally full of anxiety and fear....no real help....I have no intention of going out because the virus would probably kill me.....but boy do I resent this government who acted so slowly and ineffectually .....if they had locked down and closed borders immediately, it would have all been a different story. We are an island, the only way the virus entered was by people entering the country and not being quarantined from day one.
“ The science”.....what science? Try common-sense instead!

Do people who say "people who disobay lockdown will make CV last longer" not understand what a flattened curve is?

A flattened curve isnt less cases
Its the same amount. Spead out over a longer time, rather than peaking and being over sooner.

Lockdown was never about less cases. It was always about flattening the curve to allow time for the NHS and other services to reconfigure.

It wont "last longer" because someone went on a visit.
Thats not how it works. Thats not what lockdown was ever about!

And now that services have been reconfigured, the benefits of lockdown no longer outweigh the risks.

Hopefully it'll be lifted in the next week or two before lockdown does too much more irreversible damage.

Yogadatti

People are now dying because of lockdown. Domestic violence murders have doubled. Cancer screenings cancelled. Etc.

The reason for it has passed. Time was bought. Now its just doing harm.

The problem is the government is treating EVERYONE like children and we have lived long and productive lives and we UNDERSTAND what is necessary and what is not totally necessary and locking all over 70's up indefinitely is NOT acceptable and contravenes many laws in fact ……..someone posted earlier, either her or on FB some diatribe about 'BILLY' whoever....stating that we should all stay in to save Billy so he doesn't get COVID 19 ...how ridiculous ...'BILLY' may already have it, have had it, be a carrier ….BILLY may be an essential worker , a transport driver, an NHS worker, a postman …...who is NOT able to isolate himself ….until maybe it is too late ! or he may be an unknown carrier of the virus....and to bundle everybody into the same category makes no sense whatever. There are NO MORE deaths in Sweden pro rata to population, and they have not implemented such totally unacceptable lockdown on their citizens...trusting they are adults who can conduct themselves appropriately. Without testing no one knows who is a carrier or who had had it or who will get it ...let us live a life since we will ALL one day be dead …

I may be wrong but I think if you go for a drive and don't get out of your car you are at less risk of getting or passing the virus than if you go for a walk or a bike ride.

That is so staggeringly a 1st World attitude. If that was genuinely her belief then sometimes there are friends who need losing in life. Too many people have lost friends in the worst way, to this indescriminate virus. It's a horrible disease, and highly contagious. Yes you can have it and not know, and then spread the infection to someone who will not recover. People who stay home have a conscience and a decency to think beyond their own selfish wants.
You did absolutely the right thing. Thank you.

People who stay home have a conscience and a decency to think beyond their own selfish wants.

The OPs household arent staying home!
So telling other households they have to isnt going to go down well.

ExD Being kind, it is possible that your friend was having a panic attack, although I doubt it.

You could think about contacting her once more to ascertain her views but if they remain the same you have probably lost a 'friend'!

PamGeo You commented that the friend in question could be 'in the Gaza strip being bombed daily'. Without wanting to highjack the thread, this is an odd statement as it is in the Gaza strip that bombs are daily sent elsewhere...

ALANaV You say Sweden's different lockdown policy is better but I quote: 'Sweden has higher death rates in relation to its population size than anywhere else in Scandinavia', so your assertion is incorrect.

I agree with the poster who is angry that ports and airports were not shut here. There was the scenario that tourists were pouring into London, infecting thousands and no action was taken to stop then

Entry to the UK is still possible. Try and travel through France or Spain. Governments there have taken a more strident view of travellers.

We (the UK) were not as prepared as we should have been; we did not act decisively enough when cases soared; we sacrificed doctors, nurses, care assistants and bus drivers for the want of PPE which is nothing short of disgraceful.

If we really care about each other, we should refrain from opening up the country again too quickly. We could easily have another wave/peak of infection. Would a week or two more really be impossible for people to deal with?

I know of four deaths from Covid-19, plus six others I didn't personally know. That is a lot of death.....

First walk with my daughter,who lives with us,was this evening.
DH is in the shielding group so have been at home with him,fearful of passing the virus to him.
We went at 10pm,walked for just under an hour around the local area.
We were the only people in the whole of the walk,did see a few cars but not many.
No-one wants to be in lockdown,but it is for the health of us all.
Sadly there has been a death of someone we are friendly with.
Two nurses,family members,both have covid 19.
Don't be selfish.
Ps a neighbour said it doesn't matter,if it's my time to go.
The ambulance took her to hospital a few days later.(home now)

Multitudes of Americans weren't thriving prior to the emergence of the virus- However, they may weather lockdown much better than those who flourished prior to the emergence of the virus-

They may prove to be better equipped mentally to deal with prohibitive limits, social distance, staying at home, not doing what they want to do and in many cases being alone-

This virus is novel, there is no evidence of immunity to prevent a second infection- It has spread to every hemisphere, thrived in every climate, in humans and animals alike- It can survive, for a limited time, on a variety of surfaces and it's believed that it can travel on particulate matter, the type of matter not being so massively produced due to closures-

It needs a host- And the only way not to provide it with a host is social distancing-

ALANaV You say Sweden's different lockdown policy is better but I quote: 'Sweden has higher death rates in relation to its population size than anywhere else in Scandinavia', so your assertion is incorrect.

When you look at population density not size, sweeden is doing similarly to other EU countries with similar densities despite the others being in lockdown.

It is our pockets of density that push up our numbers.

If we really care about each other, we should refrain from opening up the country again too quickly.

And do we care that domestic violence murders have more than doubled because of lockdown?
That cancers are going undiagnosed because of lockdown?

It's much too soon to say what is going on in Sweden. They have what? 1 6th our population in nearly twice the space? We can't even judge deaths per million until their numbers show a steady decline. In fact I don't think it will ever be truly comparable at all with anyone as different cultures, populations, space and well, too many factors. Thank goodness they are protecting the most vulnerable though.

Also, flattening the curve results in less morbidity and death-

I have three friends who go back decades with me - and we have disagreed about all sorts of things over the years, some were very serious differences, but none of them have been worth giving up our long-lasting friendship for. I know I have feet of clay, so I can't really complain if they do to.

Carry on being a friend if you can, but in the knowledge that you know this woman a little better now than you did before.

Also, flattening the curve results in less morbidity and death-

Only because the initial lockdown bought time to reconfigure. Which is now done. So we've bypassed that benefit...

So we've flattened the CV curve... but now our non CV lockdown deaths are rising.

There wont be a net benefit to lockdown

I am wondering what will happen next. Each infected person only has to infect 1 person for the numbers to stay the same. Whereas we know being open completely the numbers rise very fast indeed. Can we stamp this out completely? I don't feel we can, even if China say they have done so.

Sweden has only twice the population, but more than four times the deaths from C-19 [2,194] as compared to Denmark [422] and Norway [201], its closest neighbours.

The Swedish people are practicing some social distancing, but clearly the statistics demonstrate that their tactics are not as efficient in preventing deaths as their neighbours.

Across the whole of europe, Sweeden is doing similarly to others with similar densities

Can we stamp this out completely?

No. But we could prevent huge spikes in domestic violence and cancer and other deaths by ending lockdown

You haven't just lost a friend. You have gained knowledge that maybe that friend isn't what you thought they we're. This whole situation is scary for everyone but I detest those who are ignoring the lockdown. I began isolating at first mention due to low immune system and respitory problems. I can't believe the people who just flout the laws regardless. I am sick of seeing Facebook posts of BBQs where people have had family over, or friends, or people having parties or a trio to teh beach. My son is 7 an only child and he knows better than that despite it been hard on him. Even some close friends and family have really shocked me. One minute spreading messages that we should stay at home next uploading photos of their kids playing with other kids from mike's away in paddling pools. I even got one inviting herself to my birthday because I'd mentioned having a quiet one at home with my Hubby and child. She decided that if she invite herself along she could keep social distancing despit eme being in a tiny place. With not 2 metres between each wall. Then taking great offence at been told nO that isn't happening. I want my child to grow up with his mum. I want me to stay safe, my hsuaband to stay safe and my child safe I don't want any of us to catch it. It will kill me and that's a certainty due to my lung capacity and people assume because they feel ok they are completely fine to be around me. It's wrong. They need to stop thinking they are untouchable and realise how serious this is

Sweeden has nearly twice the density of finland and density is a huge factor.

Just look at the UKs numbers. The UK areas with high density have many times more deaths than low density areas.

Its not accurate to normalise it by population as a population living in dense housing is not comparable to a population living in separate houses

Sweeden also has much higher pockets of poverty than its scandenavian neighbours. So the assumption that it is most comparable with its neighbours is also seriously flawed

Its better to look at other EU countries that are also low/mid but who have similar social issues to sweeden.

then, Sweeden isnt doing "worse" than locked down countries!

notanan, we, as a global community, will never return to the collective life we once knew, the one viewed as normal but wasn't- We are just beginning to see the fractures that existed in our society, the chinks in our individual armor-

Don't use the rise in domestic violence as a statistic to get on with your life, because that's a ruse- Domestic violence didn't stop you from carrying on as you wanted in the past, but suddenly it's become something useful now that you cannot do what you want to do-

Nobody is going to get this right- Nobody- But much will be learned from it-