Are you intending to see your family this Christmas come what may, or if there are restrictions will you abide by them ?

GrannySomerset I am afraid I did not say I would follow the rules. I said I would wait for the rules and see what they said and that I would put no-one at risk. That is not a commitment to obeying the rules.

We will do both what we’re allowed and what feels safe. Son lives in a shared house, daughter works in a school and both GC’s in school., we normally spend the eve, the day and am of Boxing Day together, I think this year we may be together through zoom only. Shame there isn’t an immediate test we could all independently take Christmas Day am and have the day if all clear!!

I'm one of the very lucky ones. DS, DIL & GC normally go to DILs family for Christmas but because I'm in their bubble, they're coming to me this year. It will be the first time I've spent Christmas Day with my DS for 11 years.

I just don't want to put the children and grandchildren in that position. Imagine how they would feel if you caught the virus from them, they would have to live with that guilt, if the worst happened to you.

I’m with you Ilovecheese. The government’s “Don’t Kill Granny” slogan really upset me at the time. Not because I’m worried they’re going to give me the virus. But if I pop my clogs because of the virus, regardless of the source, I don’t want my grandchildren thinking they were responsible. I found that slogan really insensitive.

Chewbacca

I'm one of the very lucky ones. DS, DIL & GC normally go to DILs family for Christmas but because I'm in their bubble, they're coming to me this year. It will be the first time I've spent Christmas Day with my DS for 11 years.

How lovely !

Grannynannywanny

I’m with you Ilovecheese. The government’s “Don’t Kill Granny” slogan really upset me at the time. Not because I’m worried they’re going to give me the virus. But if I pop my clogs because of the virus, regardless of the source, I don’t want my grandchildren thinking they were responsible. I found that slogan really insensitive.

Quite agree.It was an awful thing to say.

Unfortunately the decision about Christmas won't be mine. If it were left to me I'd go ahead as normal but my AC have all swallowed the government take on this nonsense hook, line and sinker and so we won't all be meeting up as a family. Nor can I see my own sisters. "In the bleak mid winter" has never been so apposite.

Thanks Lucca. I do usually see DS and family for a couple of hours on Christmas Day but then spend the rest of the day on my own, so this year will be a total change. Who'd have thought that COVID could bring about something positive?

GrannyRose15

biba70

Luckygirl, yes 'sigh' - not seen our daughters and grandchildren since February- and despair of all those who cannot or refuse to see, that we have to follow the rules if we want to get out of this dreadful mess.

Has it not occurred to you that other people have different opinions which are (also??) "supported by the science."

'come what may' has nothing to do with science, in any way, shape or form.

I wonder if
Niel Ferguson
Dominic Cummings
Dr Catherine Calderwood
Robert Jenrick
Stephen Kinnock
Margaret Ferrier
Will be meeting all of their family this Xmas?
You bet they will. They obviously didn't believe the science, did the ?

I shall not disobey any rules. Even if they are allowed to visit, I don't think my children will come back. In one case, it would involve train travel and going through London.

I did see both of them for one day visits in July, August and September and I saw one of them in Octobe too so I shan't feel deprived as, with technology, I can still see them.

Some people love big Christmases and I do recognise they will be upset but I do think that, this year, it is "safety first".

Many people will do as they think fit.
I know this from comments made to me.
I would not normally see my S and family or my D and family so I am not comprised.
My GD lives with me so no conflict there.
I am so pleased that I don’t have to make a choice, I don’t know which side the coin would fall.
I haven’t seen my D and her family since January, we have obeyed all the rules but I am 83 and fast approaching my last Christmas so I really can’t say what I would do if I were able.
I am being honest here.

Sorry, I meant to write "October" in my post above.

Don't mind too much about Christmas, but I'm hoping for a lessening of rules mid-January as it's DH's 80th birthday and it would be wonderful to have a family get-together then.

biba70 After last weekends deliberately misleading government approved presentation purporting to make the situation far worse than it really is, I no longer have any trust at all in government statistics on COVIDl. Both the parliamentary committee early this week and the Office for Statistics has criticised them for publishing deliberately misleading figures.

There are other equally qualified and knowledgeable statisticians and doctors who have been sceptical of government figures from the start and whose own forecasts have proved more accurate. I prefer to listen to them. One is at Oxford the other at Cambridge.

This is a double edged sword

The avoider is happy to use covid not to interact with that person

The avoided may or not be happy with it and raise a stink

Just wait for a month and we will see threads with this problem popping up soon.

Chewbacca

MOnica you are misled. I wish you were able to visit any one of the vast number of general hospitals in the U.K. and see for yourself the people of your age and younger suffering from Covid, and also those people who were originally admitted for other reasons but have been infected, not to mention those people who can’t be admitted because there isn’t room for them. You are burying your head in the sand.

petra

I wonder if
Niel Ferguson
Dominic Cummings
Dr Catherine Calderwood
Robert Jenrick
Stephen Kinnock
Margaret Ferrier
Will be meeting all of their family this Xmas?
You bet they will. They obviously didn't believe the science, did the ?

As my Mum would have said “if so and so jumped off a cliff, would you do the same?”

It's looking like it will be just the two of us for Christmas, which is disappointing, but I know it could be worse.

We've already had our Ruby Wedding celebration cancelled, and I'd be very surprised if we can see our children or my mother for Christmas. We are looking at having some sort of board game session over Zoom, as we usually play games after we've eaten. This will involve a certain amount of organisation, but should be doable if we find a game that doesn't rely on a shared set of cards - my daughter loves Cleudo, but obviously that wouldn't work .

We all live in different areas, so my main hope is that any restrictions are nationwide, so that there are no decisions to be made if one set can visit and another is locked down.

In what way am I burying my head in the sand? I have not said i will break any rules. I haven't so far. I am merely saying I will not make any decisions about what I will do over Christmas until I know what the rules are.

I also said I would do nothing that would put anyone at risk. So what am I doing that is putting my head in the sand?

I’ve spent the guts of a year following the rules , I’d be an idiot to break the rules at Christmas. I want to see my family - all of them - I don’t want any missing due to having died from COVID.

I am just grateful that I have a lovely husband to share Christmas. We have already told our family to crack on with Christmas without us. The virus won’t have gone and none of us want to risk the health of the rest. We will have a few good family get togethers outdoors in the summer, even if we have to put the Christmas tree in the garden in July.
There’ll be games on zoom and we’ll be able to see them all on screen.
I hope too that I remember to phone and chat to friends who’ll be alone.

Sorry.I think my answer above relates to the wrong post of mine on this thread.

here is the correct answer
Casdon Whether last weekend's statistics are correct or not has absolutely no bearing on the fact that many people have had COVID and many have died. I am not a COVID denier. I am well aware that many people have died from this very nasty disease or been, and have remained very very ill.

But we know, because the Office of Statistics said so, as did a Parliamentary committe questioning Whitty and Vallance, who themselves finally admitted that the statistics they showed in last weeks presentation were wrong and that the number of deaths forecast was grossly exagerated. Their forecasts showed a daily death rate of a thousand a day by the end of October when the actual number of deaths on that 30th October was around 300. Their forecasts have been alarmist from day 1 and I have assumed for a long time not accurate either

There are other statisticians as eminent as them publishing statistics on COVID, which are far closer to what is actually happening and who are far happier to explain their statistics and how they derived them than are Whitty and his team. Why the government has chosen not to take their figures into account I have no idea.

I have studied statistics and done forcasting, although not in the medical field, but I recognise duff statistics (or should I say deliberately lying misleading statistics) when I see them and I now no longer trust the statistics the government statisticians are producing.

Doubting the statistics has got absolutely nothing to do with questioning whether people are having COVID or how ill many of them are. As I said I am neither a COVID denier nor a sceptic. But I do want to see statistics that are accurate and to know that they are truthful and currently I do not think the official government statistics are either.

M0nica

biba70 After last weekends deliberately misleading government approved presentation purporting to make the situation far worse than it really is, I no longer have any trust at all in government statistics on COVIDl. Both the parliamentary committee early this week and the Office for Statistics has criticised them for publishing deliberately misleading figures.

There are other equally qualified and knowledgeable statisticians and doctors who have been sceptical of government figures from the start and whose own forecasts have proved more accurate. I prefer to listen to them. One is at Oxford the other at Cambridge.

Absolutely agree. The government has been saying all along that they are "following the science" but this simply is not true. Other scientists disagree with Ferguson, Whitty, Valence and co. and are providing much more evidence for their stance. The pandemic is effectively over but SAGE won't let this nightmare end.