Eddie Izzard

You answered while I was typing. Surely you must have at least read the reason refuges don't allow male staff or teenage boys ids because some women will find the presence of a male bodied person traumatic and triggering? Surely that could also apply to a transwoman with an intact male body. Someone like Alex Drummond for example.

I don't work in women's refuges so I can only post what I believe, the staff there are the experts.

No trisher. The women in those refuges are "the experts". They're the ones who have been beaten to within an inch of their lives, raped, tortured and watched as their children are traumatised by a man. They're the ones who write begging letters, explaining why they don't want a person with a penis and testicles (no matter how pretty his dress his) in their place of sanctuary. I repeat: you don't appear to like women at all.

Chewbacca if you must think people are nice to support or encourage them, to care for them, to campaign for them to fight their corner you will either go through life wearing rose coloured spectacles or support no-one. I know the lives of some women are not the perfectly nice, caring, concerned protected ones some on GN experience. I know some women are prejudiced (and GN affirms that) I have seen women shout encouragement when men and boys fight. It doesn't mean I dislike them. In my opinion the people who really dislike women are those who think they live lives like Disney in the 1950s and don't care or realise what they are actually like. It's funny as well how they don't like to have any aspect of women's behaviour brought up which challenges that view. It also seems to be the classic situation of killing the messenger.

Rosie51

You answered while I was typing. Surely you must have at least read the reason refuges don't allow male staff or teenage boys ids because some women will find the presence of a male bodied person traumatic and triggering? Surely that could also apply to a transwoman with an intact male body. Someone like Alex Drummond for example.

Rosie51 I really don't know I don't work in a refuge I'm not staying in a refuge. I can only trust the staff as I say if they are not there to protect the women they care for what hope is there for anyone?

I know the lives of some women are not the perfectly nice, caring, concerned protected ones some on GN experience

protected ????

Words are failing me.

I am lucky, but I hope I am aware and, although I cannot speak for her, even the woman whom I have met from the local Women's Refuge and which our women's group supports would be aghast at some of the PC remarks on here.

Sorry - political correctness is not always possible in reality.

Do you know them trisher?
Have you met any of the staff?
Have you listened to what they say?

They will have to be PC when speaking to the media - laws is laws! But dealing with real situations is so different to what these PC lawmakers have ever experienced.

trisher

hugshelp

trisher

Blossoming

Trisher you’ve convinced me.

I’ve been following this thread with interest and discussing it with some trans friends. You’ve convinced me that self ID is a terrible idea and biological males do not belong in women’s spaces.

Had you really no preconceptions then?. Self id has been operational in Ireland (not a place known for its progressive views) for 5 years. It seems to be working well.

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/irelands-self-id-nightmare

hugshelp the story is an undeniable sad and terrible one which no one would or could support. However using it to justify transphobia is a sep too far. The failure of the system to support or deal succesfully with this young person is not the fault of transpeople.
However the person who posted this has in the past been warned by the police for harassing a transwoman and her family, condemned for trivialising the holocaust and has generally behaved in ways which no one should accept. So I prefer not to give weight to anything he posts.He was also banned from Twitter at one point.

Ah yes, he was warned after arguing with Stephanie Hayden on twitter
www.theguardian.com/culture/2018/oct/07/graham-linehan-police-warning-complaint-by-stephanie-hayden-transgender-activist-twitter

I gather she took out a case against him, along with cases against 27 other people, including a transsexual
grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/humiliation-for-stephanie-hayden
"Adrian is someone I came to know because he was giving assistance to three women Hayden was also suing. Bizarrely, in Hayden’s complaint to the court about Adrian, Hayden cited this assistance as an example of how Adrian was “harassing” Hayden. Yes, you have read that correctly – if you assist someone Hayden is suing, you run the risk of being sued by Hayden."
Firstly, Hayden was relying on the transcript of a leaked group WhatsApp conversation. Hayden then gloated on Twitter about how “Operation Nine Iron” (the name of the group chat) was a transphobic conspiracy to harass Hayden. The group name refers to Hayden having received a previous conviction for assaulting a man with a golf club.

In fact, it was nothing more than a group discussing legal tactics on how to defend claims Hayden had brought, and quite legitimately, sharing publicly available information. Adrian was bemused that Hayden, who identifies as a lawyer, and boasts about being an experienced litigator, had not understood the court would not allow Hayden to admit this transcript into evidence.

The case was dropped.

www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/exclusive-transgender-lawyer-suing-graham-linehan-was-convicted-threatening-man-golf

The lawmakers who have been pressurised by activists to prioritise the needs of grown men (like Izzard) over the safety of women and girls.
This is despite trans people already having legal protection.

When you consider what women regularly have to deal with in a public toilet, messy periods, miscarriage, and mobile phones etc, then I feel very sorry for teenage girls these days.

Callistemon

Do you know them trisher?
Have you met any of the staff?
Have you listened to what they say?

They will have to be PC when speaking to the media - laws is laws! But dealing with real situations is so different to what these PC lawmakers have ever experienced.

Callistemon who can we believe then? if the orgainser and a volunteer from women's refuges report to a commons committee that they are happy with their risk assessments. If people telephoned in Scottish refuges say they are happy with the situation, who should I believe?. You obviously have more experience than me, but I wonder then, where are the whistleblowers, because although it may be possible to keep a few refuge workers quiet I can't believe they are all being silenced.

Women, girls and vulnerable people are coerced into silence.
Women, girls and vulnerable people are gaslighted into silence.
It is a very common occurrence.

To deny this happens is somewhat astonishing.

No point-scoring from me, just concern that (natal-)women’s rights are being eroded.

Trisher I don't want a man in a ladies loo. He should use the male one but they probably would not be keen. Are we supposed to alter everything to indulge a minority. l Your misplaced loyalties do great dis service to women in refuges escaping violent men.,however much he tries he looks like a big man in make up dressed as a woman. To say otherwise is silly.,

From the Womens Aid web page

Can I bring my teenage sons with me?

This depends upon the individual refuge. Some allow sons up to the age of 16, while others cannot take boys over the age of 13 or 14. Very few refuges will accept male children up to the age of 18. Talk to the National Domestic Violence Helpline about other options you may have.

So it would appear quite acceptable to have blanket bans on teenage boys? Presumed guilty of goodness knows what. I can only assume it's because they are guilty of having male bodies and are not identifying as women which would immediately render them harmless and welcome.

Shamelessly lifting a twitter link from MN.
I will leave this here, it says it all really.

twitter.com/truethingmies/status/1343642230020517889/photo/1

When there is no logic behind decisions those decisions are seen as partisan and therefor invalid.

Izzard was on BBC breakfast this morning, it's rather a shame I missed it. After reading this thread I'm interested how Izzard comes across.

Will watch it on catch up later.

Sparkling

Trisher I don't want a man in a ladies loo. He should use the male one but they probably would not be keen. Are we supposed to alter everything to indulge a minority. l Your misplaced loyalties do great dis service to women in refuges escaping violent men.,however much he tries he looks like a big man in make up dressed as a woman. To say otherwise is silly.,

They are already there Sparkling legally they have to be. In order to get a Gender Recognition Certificate they have to live as their chosen gender for 2 years. That means using loos and changing rooms.

This discussion is becoming like groundhog day.

Maybe transwomen, clutching their Gender Recognition certificates, are queuing, (in a socially distanced way), around the block to get into the ladies. There wont be many though.Only a few hundred people apply for these certificates annually. Most don't bother.

The thread started with Eddie Izzard feeling girly. It moved onto his escapade in the ladies loo. He told it as an amusing anecdote, but the three school girls didn't find it so amusing. Eddie turned this around by trying to portray these girls behaviour as bullying. So we have the shy, retiring transwoman, Eddie, being hounded out of the ladies by three braying girls, schoolchildren. Hes so brave!

If I stumbled across the girly Eddie in the ladies, I hope I would be able to challenge him.

You're right Petunia; but if you, or I, were to challenge any man who's in the women's toilets, we'd have to be prepared to "be laid out on our sorry fat arse", according to the man with a beard, tattoos and a blonde wig further upthread.

Its a pity that discussions such as this always end up in the toilets. But they do. So while we are blathering away about policing women's toilets and looking at genitals before someone is allowed in, we aren't talking about how the trans activists, their allies and progressive institutions and political parties are attempting to change society. Where there's a bandwagon, someone will jump onto it. The bandwagon here, just to be clear, is not the dysphoric individual who feels that their body is wrong. The bandwagon here is identity politics backed up by the vast financial, medical, political and corporate interests.

With all women's spaces and sex based rights being challenged, with us barely noticing, before long there will be no women's spaces and no women's sex based rights, because a man, such as Eddie Izzard, demands that we stop bullying him and move aside, he needs to adjust his raspberry beret.

grannyrebel7

It's not brave. Bravery is putting your life on the line and he's not doing that. I admired him for running all those marathons and he is very funny, but brave no!

He is running 31 marathons now, throughout January, and also doing comedy gigs.
This link refers to him as 'she' throughout, tho.

www.runnersworld.com/uk/news/a34964215/eddie-izzard-marathon/

Chewbacca

You're right Petunia; but if you, or I, were to challenge any man who's in the women's toilets, we'd have to be prepared to "be laid out on our sorry fat arse", according to the man with a beard, tattoos and a blonde wig further upthread.

Is he serious or is he taking the piss out of the transgender community?

Sorry for the language but I am losing patience.

petunia

Its a pity that discussions such as this always end up in the toilets. But they do. So while we are blathering away about policing women's toilets and looking at genitals before someone is allowed in, we aren't talking about how the trans activists, their allies and progressive institutions and political parties are attempting to change society. Where there's a bandwagon, someone will jump onto it. The bandwagon here, just to be clear, is not the dysphoric individual who feels that their body is wrong. The bandwagon here is identity politics backed up by the vast financial, medical, political and corporate interests.

With all women's spaces and sex based rights being challenged, with us barely noticing, before long there will be no women's spaces and no women's sex based rights, because a man, such as Eddie Izzard, demands that we stop bullying him and move aside, he needs to adjust his raspberry beret.

There have been attempts to discuss all the things you mention, petunia. We aren't missing the point - it just keeps being sidelined and the conversation diverted to the trivial by gaslighting and a deliberate misunderstanding of people's posts.

Ha ha.You are right doodledog. I just get so irritated when we are all dragged back into the loo. You are also right about the deliberate attempt to deflect and distract.
i will make it my new year resolution NOT to be sucked into arguments about toilets. or even Eddie Izzard!

I would hope that Eddie Izzard is helping some people to see what is wrong with the concept of self-id of sex.