Eddie Izzard

What reality check trisher? "If more than 40% of transprisoners are there for sexual offences, that is disproportionately high" and you are using that as an argument FOR male bodied people being in a female prison?
If you look for more up to date information you will find that percentage rises. Half of the male prisoners who declared themselves transgender in 2019 have been sentenced with one or more sexual offences.
fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-male-criminality-sex-offences/

Would a man ever pretend to be a woman to gain access to female space? How can I tell the difference between him and a genuine male woman? Why are some women male and some female, what quality do they share? Do female women deserve to retain any things for themselves?

hugshelp

What reality check trisher? "If more than 40% of transprisoners are there for sexual offences, that is disproportionately high" and you are using that as an argument FOR male bodied people being in a female prison?
If you look for more up to date information you will find that percentage rises. Half of the male prisoners who declared themselves transgender in 2019 have been sentenced with one or more sexual offences.
fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-male-criminality-sex-offences/

I think the rate amongst the general male prison population is about 26 percent so it's much higher, why?

If I may, I'd like to add another question:

Are you unnerved by the rise in anti-feminism, particularly in the US (reduced abortion rights being the tip of the iceberg) and if so, to what extent do you think that denying that women exist as a sex is playing into the hands of those with this agenda?

It's bloody terrifying Doodledog. When I was a kid thought the US was a free country, now women's rights are being trampled on.

Very much so, and I can't help thinking that self-id is playing straight into the hands of extremists. If 'men' can be 'women', will women only be needed for breeding? If we aren't careful, our daughters could sleepwalk into Gilead, cheered on by misguided members of our own sex.

I find it sad that so many women who are happy to stand up for the rights of transwomen are also happy to trample all over the rights of biological women. Or are simply blind to the way they are being eroded. A middle ground could be found with honest open debate, but any question of compromise or even discussion is met with the accusation of transphobia.

Women are indoctrinated from a young age not to stand up for themselves, and it seems this runs very deep. I doubt women will even be needed for breeding much longer doodledog. www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/transgender-woman-should-allowed-womb-22270768

Agreed. Our social conditioning betrays us, be nice, be quiet, step aside...

The word people used to obscure who is harming who...

Doodledog If you think it's feminist women who support transwomen who are the danger you are so misled. I'll ask again transwomen have been living amongst us for years why are you so incensed now? Why are you so concerned? Why is there so much publicity? If you don't realise that it is Christian right wing well funded orgainistaions who are playing on your fears, using them to divide and rule, seeking to introduce their very restrictive and discriminatory views by stages, then you are indeed in the vanguard of introducing ideas that will lead you to Gilead. Gilead could never exist in a society where the rights of all people are respected, but it can very easily exist in the right wing society you are paving the way for. It's how the right wing has always worked. Introduce ideas which focus on fears, which seem acceptable to many people, divide that section of people and demonise them, then move on to others. In Germany it was the disabled then socialists and Jews, in the UK and US today it is transpeople, tomorrow it will be gay people or women who have abortions.
No one can deny women rights if every member of the human race is considered as valuable and has the right to exist but once you start to discriminate and divide it is difficult to turn back.

It all boils down to the fact that certain men are interested in dismantling the safeguarding rules that are there to protect women and children.
Lisa Muggeridge has an excellent series of youtube videos on the origins of safeguarding. The basic premise goes back so far in time.
It really is a simple truth that is clear once you see it.

And he we are talking about those certain men who would like to break it apart.

It is already gay people and women who have abortions, trisher.

Please stop assuming that I am either stupid, ill informed or right wing, as none of these are the case.

I repeat (although I am tired of doing so on here), I am not incensed. I am in favour of rights for transpeople. My only concerns centre around self-identifying transwomen who want to gain access to single-sex female spaces where vulnerable women would prefer not to be around people with penises.

Why is that such a big deal? Why should it not be a concession that is happily granted in return for being accepted as female by people who claim to understand what being female means?

Is this the same Lisa Muggeridge who refers to women MPs as "stupid fuckers" because they didn't ttend an anti-trans meeting? I'd prefer not to listen to someone with such views. hate is not acceptable by trans activists or anti-trans women. twitter.com/judeinlondon2/status/1053390442757263366?lang=en

Doodledog in that case campaign for proper risk assessments and stop making it anti-trans. There are women who are a danger to other women. There are transwomen who present no dangers with or without a penis. Most women's refuges have risk assessment which stop the admission of anyone who is a danger to other women.

I just read your BBC Reality Check link, trisher.

It included :

We submitted Freedom of Information requests to the Ministry of Justice.

It said that 60 of the 125 transgender inmates it counted in England and Wales were serving time for a sexual offence.

(My emphasis)

This anger isn't shocking, trisher.

Women are angry over this.

Women are angry that many MP's are not speaking out over this.

Self ID will destroy all single sex spaces to appease a few men.

So you won't listen to a woman because...she swore once?

Males are a threat to women regardless of their identity.

What do you think about male violence trisher? Do teenage girls have the right to undress in spaces without any males present? Why do you feel men become less of a threat when they identify as women, how does that happen? What is a woman? Do female women deserve to have spaces away from males at times?

trisher

Doodledog in that case campaign for proper risk assessments and stop making it anti-trans. There are women who are a danger to other women. There are transwomen who present no dangers with or without a penis. Most women's refuges have risk assessment which stop the admission of anyone who is a danger to other women.

Oh for goodness' sake! Are you deliberately misunderstanding?

There are plenty of men who are no danger to women, but they do not try to insinuate themselves into women's spaces because they are men. This is not anti-male. It is to protect women, and the vast majority of men accept it.

Why is it impossible for some transwomen to accept it too? It is not transphobic, it is not anti-trans. It is asking for women to retain the right to feel safe in situations where they feel vulnerable. That is all.

I'll ask again transwomen have been living amongst us for years why are you so incensed now?

For myself, it's the fact that self-id (as with Izzard) is being widely accepted and so single-sex spaces for women are ceasing to exist as more & more men claim to be women.

Previously, it was very few men who could do this and be accepted.
So the possible risks were very small.
No longer.

It is already gay people and women who have abortions, trisher.
Yes it is Doodledog because the right wing have not yet moved their substantial and influential resources on to those ideas. They won't do that until they have won the trans argument. Once you are adequately convinced that transpeople present some sort of threat to society they will move onto other areas. They will probably target abortion first. You will be told how damaging it is to women's mental health (so is having children but they won't mention that) you'll probably be convinced it's male doctors doing it to women, and before you know it you'll be campaigning for a change in abortion law.
And self-id for trans people is much like the campaign people with disabilities ran to stop the medical model of disability being the accepted one and he social model become accepted. It is changing the thinking that trans people are ill or pychologically damaged and they need to be fixed. It changes things mostly for the individual. It isn't just deciding you are trans. Most trans people would accept making a legal statement of transition just not the medical interference. The dea that it is just making your mind up to change one day is of course much more effective at stirring up anti-trans activity.

It said that 60 of the 125 transgender inmates it counted in England and Wales were serving time for a sexual offence.

For such a minority group that is alot of transwomen in the womens prison estate.

You misunderstand. My point was that gay people and women seeking abortions are already the target of the American Right. In some states it is virtually impossible to get an abortion, and women who are deemed to have endangered a foetus have been jailed.

Lesbians were blamed for Hurricanes Irma and Harvey, and that's just the example that made the news in the UK.

Women's rights are being eroded, and denying the fact that we exist as a sex is another step along that road.

Nobody is saying that transwomen 'just make up their minds to be female one day' either. Please stop being so condescending. Everyone on this thread is responding in an intelligent and well-argued manner, and we don't need to be continually told that we just don't understand, or that we are less well-informed than you are - we just disagree with you from our own, different, but equally well-informed perspective.

Sorry - I meant to quote trasher's last post in my one above.

..also which transwomen? Some are well intentioned, some men get a sexual kick from wearing women's clothes...how can I tell? How about men are kinder to feminine men, surely that's the answer. Men be kind to other men regardless of how they look.

Pippa Bunce does change their gender often, and picks up awards for women when they identify as a woman.

Many males for many reasons identify as women.

Women exist outside of men though.

So explain what you see as a suitable alternative Doodledog if you don't like self id, what would you like?
And yes women's rights are being eroded in the US, not though I think by left wing feminists. But by the same people targetting trans people whilst pretending to support women. Won't be long until it's here either. The right wing churches already exist with huge funding from the US.
Standing besides a transwoman does not impact on my rights, denying that transwomen rights does.
Amazing isn't it when you post something which challenges someone's concepts you are accused of being condescending.
The swearng doesn't bother me LSP the hate speech does. I don't understand why it is OK for her to say such things if hate speech from trans activists is condemned.
Incidentally I've never been "nice", "quiet" or "stepped aside" quite the reverse.
The changing rooms and toilets argument is so passe. No one knows what genitals most people in a changing room have. And who is ging to check?