Shamima Begum

Sarnia

I am delighted with the judges decision. Had she won, it would have opened the floodgates for others in her position to do the same. Tragedies like the Manchester Arena bombing show only too clearly that we have terrorists amongst us. We don't need to swell those numbers by bringing back to Britain those whose allegiance is towards brutal regimes such as ISIS.

Excellent post.

If as a 15 year old child you know what you are doing. Then there can be no such thing as grooming.

The issue as to what extent she was groomed and how much of an active role she had in any way, shape or form in the atrocities that were carried out, will be aired in her defence at her trial.

This ruling isn't finding her guilty and reinforcing the decision to strip her of her citizenship, it is only preventing her from returning to the UK for the hearing which will ultimately uphold or not, the previously made decision to deprive her of her British citizenship.

She is not a child at 15. She knew what she was doing. I agree with the courts decision and do not want her or others like her back, living on benefits at our expense. I have no sympathy for her at all.

Britain’s youngest convicted terrorist, now aged 16, has been sentenced at the Old Bailey today. The boy, who led a neo-Nazi cell from his grandmother’s house, was given a 24-month youth rehabilitation order at the court in London. He was aged just 13 when he got his hands on instructions for explosives. Judge Mark Dennis QC told the boy, who has not been named for legal reasons, that he had ‘entered an online world of wicked prejudice’.

‘The wider picture revealed in this case – the actions, words and mindset of teenagers – is deeply concerning,’ the judge added. He said any reoffending or lapse in behaviour would lead to a ‘spiral of ever-lengthening terms of incarceration’ to protect the public. At the age of 14, the boy from south-east Cornwall collected a stash of terror-related material and shared far-right extremist ideology in online chatrooms, including racist, homophobic and anti-Semitic views. He pleaded guilty to 12 offences, which included two of dissemination of terrorist documents and 10 of possession of terrorist material.

The material shared by the boy included bomb-making instructions, ingredients for napalm, and how to make Molotov cocktails, build an AK47 assault rifle, and engage in knife combat. He also allegedly commissioned a ‘Nuke London’ poster, which bore an image of an atom bomb cloud explosion over the Houses of Parliament with the slogan ‘Sterilise the cesspit that you call London’. In summer 2019 he became the British cell leader of the FKD – Feuerkrieg Division – which is a neo-Nazi group that idolises the likes of mass murderer Anders Breivik. The network encouraged individuals to carry out ‘lone wolf’ attacks. It was claimed in court the boy was responsible for propaganda and recruiting members.

metro.co.uk/2021/02/08/uks-youngest-convicted-terrorist-16-given-two-year-yro-sentence-14041251/?ito=cbshare

This teenager, who clearly poses a threat to this country, was given a 24-month youth rehabilitation order. How does that compare with the treatment of Shamima Begum?.

It compares very badly varian. It’s good to read the Judge’s comments in sentencing the teenage boy.
Sharon’s Begum was groomed. School, children’s services, the police were all well aware of her on line activities. Safeguarding protocols were ignored, as a result the opportunity to intervene and attempt to work with her and her family was lost.
To top off this monumental failure, this country seeks to take away her citizenship.

Why should we let her back in and then pay for the security forces to watch her?? It's not like they haven't got more than enough to watch - every one we keep out is one less.

Seems some are making her a victim now.

I agree with Urmstongran.

The difference is that boy didn’t actually do anything or go anywhere. I’m very tired atm and can’t be bothered to go into it but I’m pretty sure I read he was on the spectrum or something. Isolated, bullied, bad childhood, hence living with his gran.

Begum actually went and lived amongst twisted, sadistic evil. Lots of teenagers dream of excitement, go astray, then find out the reality is nothing like the fantasy. She appears to have revelled in all she witnessed and probably took part in. I just hope she is kept out of this country.

I'd be disgusted if shamina Begum came back to the UK. She's a dreadful person and an appalling mother, her babies starved, she didn't have a maternal bone in her body, as far as I'm concerned she should've got a death sentence.

She is certainly a victim - of Islamic extremism, it was her decision to take that path, nobody kidnapped her and dragged her away, regardless of her age and all the advice offered. I have no sympathy.

A clip of her interview was shown again this morning. No remorse, no understanding of the anger felt towards her and why. She said “I met my husband. I had a great time”. Just reinforced my view that she shouldn’t return.

Grooming is not the same as choosing to do something

If some mass murderer came over to Britain we would try to get rid of them by sending them back to the country they came from. What would we say if that country suddenly revoked their citizenship and said they did not want them your problem now.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

They may say the same as us simtib which doesn't make the decision made about her wrong.

What a terrible thing to have gone through LauraNorder and how courageous of you to share it with us.

LauraNorder, thanks for giving that personal information in support of your belief that “ she deserves a chance to be heard. Our kindness might be her Orlin ‘
Empathy like yours is invaluable to all of us. Often adults who could have been brutalised by childhood experiences, have so much to give. It’s that survivor empathy and compassion. It isn’t naive to believe most people are capable of redemption.

Smileless2012

They may say the same as us simtib which doesn't make the decision made about her wrong.

If it was the other way round they may say the same as we are saying, but I am sure we would be quoting international law and getting them sent back on the next flight and would be really indignat that some country tried to dump their unwanted citizens on us.

LauraNorder

Sorry to hear about your awful childhood experiences.
Only problem is. most serial killers have had terrible childhoods, do we forgive Rose West? Myra Hindley? ( & countless others )
Their truly horrific childhood experiences made them the people they became.
Where do we draw the line of forgiveness & wanting to ‘save’ people?

I disagree with the decision.

The point to consider about Shamima Begum is : does she pose a threat to Britain if she returns and my sincere belief is that she does.

Laura, thankyou for that post, as Iam64 said it was full of empathy and kindness.

That is very brave of you to post Laura and I agree that it’s difficult to judge when you don’t know someone’s back story and yours is indeed very sad. I don’t suppose many of us are the same person we were when we were 15. In fact neurologically the brain is still developing at this age and it is why teenagers often risk take, make rash decisions and so on.

I can understand the anger and disgust that people feel towards Begum but putting aside the emotional feelings it cannot be right to revoke citizenship and leave a person stateless, and also to deny them the right to a fair trial.

Personally I do not think anyone is beyond redemption, and compassion is a less destructive emotion than hate.

Kandinsky, i was brought up in the CofE. I retain faith but rarely speak of it. I don’t believe it’s up to me to forgive Rose West, Hindley or others like them. I’m relieved they were imprisoned. I understood Hindley no longer posed a threat but I didn’t want her released. I’m ok with keeping West in prison.
I’m extremely uncomfortable with the generalisation that horrific childhood experiences ‘made them the people they became’.
I have close friends and relatives who experienced awful childhoods. My working life brought me into contact with so many adults whose childhood experiences were beyond description. Most of those people are living what could be described as good lives.
We make choices as adults. As 15 year olds, all to often we make bad choices. Mine included smoking (I loved cigarettes) and at 16 a boyfriend my parents didn’t like. I married him two years later. Big Mistake but luckily, I grew up, got out and built a good life.
Shaming Begum was attracted to a way of life I find abhorrent. We don’t know the extent of brainwashing. She’s a British citizen. I believe we should bring her back to fight Her case, alongside investigating. If she’s committed war crimes or offences, prosecute.