Oooh, Betty! Investigating the Baroness

haporthrosie I think we are closer in our opinions than might be thought at first.

About 10% of the members of the Lords haven't taken the training, and we both agree that there needs to be in investigation. Imagine if they had said they weren't going to include Baroness Boothroyd in the investigation because of her medical situation. That gives, say, Heseltine, the opportunity to say that he was ill as well so they should drop it for him. I'm not suggesting that a knee operation is comparable to open heart surgery, but where do you draw the line? There needs to be consistency.

The press coverage seems to be suggesting that there is going to be an investigation into the Baroness and she'll be hauled over the coals and subjected to questioning. Then told off or disciplined for not having done some online training. But I don't expect that is what will happen, I expect there will be an investigation into why they all missed the training.

To me its like when someone at work is subjected to disciplinary action; it doesn't mean that they have been intentionally "bad", but that there is something that needs looking in to.

Alegrias1, I'm not denying there should be an investigation, or saying that age or health should automatically get people off the hook. It's a matter of degree. Fortunately I've never had to have either knee or open-heart surgery, but I'm close to people who've been through both. Online training, which was given as an option, would be quite possible for someone who's had a knee done. If you've ever been around someone after open-heart, though, you can understand why Betty's doctor clearly stated that even the Zoom version must be scratched for now. (A friend of mine is a retired heart surgeon and agrees about the internet course being too difficult so soon after a heart op.)

Rules must be followed, yes, unless they're cruel. Especially when a request for delay due to medical grounds has very documented proof.

Lumping all the other rather lame excuses together with Lady B.'s is like saying there's no difference between a bit of a cough and TB. It seems very simple to me: they could either delay (not drop) the entire investigation until Betty's cleared by the doctor, or go on with it for the others and simply let her take it when she's fit enough.

Perhaps I'm misreading your post, or didn't make myself clear to start with. If so I apologise. I never meant to imply there should be no investigation at all, or that the course was terrible, or that Betty should be forever exempt just because of who she is. However the papers you mention may present it, I feel it's a terrible thing to do to anyone of her age at such a time and thought I had expressed that.

I agree they'll more than likely clear the Baroness in the way you describe but to me it's the principle of the thing. Her situation (not station but situation) is drastic enough, and documented enough, to warrant an approved delay. The others you mention are not. The human body is what it is. We can only control it so much and some conditions are more grave than others.

Even in criminal proceedings, serious medical conditions are usually taken into account. Giving Lady Boothroyd a temporary waiver wouldn't be breaking the rules, just showing common decency.

haporthosie Other people being "investigated": Heseltine (Tory), 88, recovering from a knee operation in a nursing home; Lord Owen (SDP), 82, who says he never received the emails; Jeffery Archer (Tory) 81; said he didn't know he was supposed to attend.

So, maybe the training was terrible and a waste of time, but all these people sit in the House of Lords and need to abide by the rules. If they are meant to have the training, they need to take the training. If they feel their advanced age means that they don't need it, then perhaps they should consider their place in the HoL. If they miss the deadline, they can expect to be investigated. Them's the rules.

The fact that nearly 10% of the HoL missed the training says to me that there needs to be an investigation. I expect the investigation will find that Betty told the HoL what the delay was and they'll go "OK then" But it suits the Mail/Telegraph/Express to make people think that dear old Betty is getting picked on.

Bloomin’ box ticking exercise!

Hello galaxy, my apologies - I just saw your other posts. I'm very sorry I didn't explain this better in my original comment. It's not about sexual harassment training courses per se - though it is bizarre the Lords are having to do this but not MPs. What's made me so angry is that the people doing the investigation don't seem to be taking her age, health, and doctor's proof into account. When I came across the petition to drop the investigation it was nice to see that others felt strongly about this too. Perhaps I shouldn't have included the link. It's just to do with dropping the investigation against Betty and not the courses themselves.

To the best of my knowledge the others under investigation aren't 91 and trying to recover from open-heart surgery though! That's what I don't understand. Lady B. gave full disclosure of her medical situation and happily agreed to attend at another time. It just seems very unethical imho.

Oh God before someone comes on I know men can be sexually harassed too.

Thanks Alegrias I thought there must be more to it.

Are you saying women should expect to be sexually harassed because there is a pandemic. I dont understand the link. There seems to have been a balls up here. But training with regard to sexual harassment is surely not a bad thing. Most workplaces have compulsory training. It should definitely have been compulsory for mps.

Galaxy - the implication is that the Baroness is being investigated because she wouldn't go to this training and how ridiculous is that, she's ill and she doesn't need it anyway.

60 peers are part of the investigation, including Heseltine, so I suspect that the "investigation" is part of the Lords standard processes for trying to find out why so many people didn't take part in what is an obligatory course.

Never let that stand in the way of a good "knock the woke" story though.

Absolutely ridiculous and a waste of resources in these covid times. MPs weren’t forced to take the course so why the Lords?
In any case she has said she will do it. How stupid this woke world can become.

Very sorry Greyduster I meant to add that I liked Mr. Speaker Thomas as well.
The only problem with GN is there's no 'like' button!

Lemsip, that's a marvelous name! You've helped me through many a rotten cold. Funnily enough I'd just re-read her wonderful autobiography when this horrible story came out. Thank you for signing the petition, it's nice to see that people are speaking out about this.

Is this true. It seems quite bizarre.

I agree haporthrosie how quickly is the band wagon leapt upon.

I definitely agree with you Greyduster, it's incredible the speed at which common sense and compassion are being thrown out the window. And even more bizarre that so much of it is done in the name of 'sensitivity' and 'awareness.' The HoL might want to start by being aware of what Lady B. is dealing with!

I've signed petition. I liked her as speaker........read her autobiography some years back and love her.

I agree it is a shameful way to treat Lady Boothroyd, or anyone else, and is typical of a growing agenda that throws common sense and compassion to the wind. She was arguably the best Speaker we have had in modern times, though I liked Mr Speaker Thomas.

Apart from being a dreadful way to treat Lady B where is the common sense.She provided the drs information and reasons before the class,it isn’t like she just didn’t turn up?I despair?

I think it's nonsense this bit of news, it's very unfair. I couldn't believe it when I read it.

Absolutely disgusting way to treat this lady.