Feeling sorry for men

Another thing is when you see a little child fall over and hurt themselves. I would no longer automatically help and my husband wouldn’t,either. It’s a sad old world we live in.

sunseeker

I do feel sorry for men - as has been said the majority are not predatory. There has been a study, in Australia I think, about "toxic masculinity", apparently if a man is strong, competitive and self reliant it is a sign of"toxic masculinity". My late DH was all of those things, but was also kind, gentle and protective of anyone weaker than him

I can't agree with Gingsters comment about men being "led on by girls". No matter what a "girl" or woman wears, if she says no - any real man would back off.

Totally agree. Being strong and protective does not make a man an abuser. I am a strong, protective mother. Hurt my girls and I will become a lioness protecting her cubs. I'm not classed as a potential abuser. Just a mother.

Galaxy
I really don’t like being touched by people, men or women really, if I don’t know them well.
My husband had a disgusting sleazy old uncle, who couldn’t keep his hands to himself, my father in law warned me to keep the children away from him, but nobody actually confronted him, or did anything about him, he made my flesh crawl.

There is a whole spectrum of issues here and I think the OP was talking about the innocent things of holding doors open, giving compliments etc. Not the sexual predation.

Regarding giving compliments. I would never tell anyone they had lost weight or that their hair was looking nice unless I knew them well. If I know them well there is no worry in my mind about whether they will misconstrue the comment. If in doubt, say nothing. Nobody is living their life waiting for your compliments, on their weight, hair or anything else. Its just not necessary.

I'll open the door for someone who is carrying something bulky, or struggling with children for instance. That's it, nobody else needs a door opened for them and for someone else to let them through first. I always hold the door if someone is behind me because its rude to let it slam in their face.

I wouldn't touch anybody else's washing or their children. They have nothing to do with me.

Hithere

Rapes - he said she said, even with clear proof

The latest case of Josh Duggar - just plain unacceptable

The price of motherhood- fatherhood doesnt have it

Pink tax

I can go on and on - as women we are gaslighted every day

In general, it is not what is said but how it said and the context.

My OP and subsequent posts make it clear that I am talking about the everyday normal man like my DH. Predatory and abusive behaviour is never acceptable but they are a small minority of man. It's not fair that all men are tarred with the same brush.

I do feel sorry for men - as has been said the majority are not predatory. There has been a study, in Australia I think, about "toxic masculinity", apparently if a man is strong, competitive and self reliant it is a sign of"toxic masculinity". My late DH was all of those things, but was also kind, gentle and protective of anyone weaker than him

I can't agree with Gingsters comment about men being "led on by girls". No matter what a "girl" or woman wears, if she says no - any real man would back off.

That's a good point Avalon we should all be careful with our interactions with others I hate being touched by people I dont know for example, for some people whether for cultural reasons or from past experiences touch by strangers is not accepted.

Rapes - he said she said, even with clear proof

The latest case of Josh Duggar - just plain unacceptable

The price of motherhood- fatherhood doesnt have it

Pink tax

I can go on and on - as women we are gaslighted every day

In general, it is not what is said but how it said and the context.

I’m wondering are there two different issues here ? Predatory behaviour with potential danger /inappropriate comments

*Aye, my heart bleeds for them. Or maybe not. ?
Don't have much sympathy afraid. If anyone doesn't know what is acceptable behaviour these days, there's no excuse*.

alegrias I think that’s harsh not every man is a predator or out to harm women in word or deed in fact the majority aren’t
The goalposts are constantly changing and what is deemed normal words today may be considered sexual tomorrow the example Vampire gives us a perfect example in her opening post What on earth was wrong with telling the lady her muscles were coming on nicely after her workout and hard work, men must be afraid to open their mouths now because of the actions of some
Sexual abuse is NEVER EVER right or acceptable and needs calling out, sexual innuendos can be horrible but now it’s gone out of proportion and I think it’s awful for a decent man to not know what he can safely say or do
I heard of a situation where a little girl fell and the man nearby darent help her up in case he was called a paedo and Dads who won’t bath baby girls Thats so awful for all decent men, who are the majority
And one more thing if you go on any social media you will see girls with mouths like the dustbin using filthy words and highly sexual phrases about both women and about men

It needs to work both ways

I hate pervy, sleazy men, who doesn’t?
But if I’m honest I’ve not come across that many, a few incidents when I was young, and didn’t know how to deal with it, but only one man springs to mind now.
But I do agree with Vampirequeen, I think men have to take great care what they say and do.
A couple of summers ago we were in a park with our grandchildren, a little girl approached my husband, took his hand and asked him to take her over to the kiosk to buy a token for something, I quickly intervened, but he didn’t seem to get it, it’s sad when men can’t do a kindness without looking suspicious.
A friends father in law was accused of touching one of her nieces when he was helping her put on her swimsuit at the beach, of course you never know for certain, but I think it’s extremely unlikely he would have done it on purpose, it caused a massive family rift, and he never really got over it.

Hithere

I dont at all!

They still get away with way too much and are given the benefit of the doubt.

All men ?

Helping up and consoling children who have fallen over.

Got interrupted by phone call.

It’s not just men but women who have to be careful in certain situations such as helping up and consoling them.

I think it's about our assessment of risk as well, men are much more at risk of being violently assaulted by men than by being wrongly accused by a woman. We worry about the wrong things often.

Give me an example of too much.

I dont at all!

They still get away with way too much and are given the benefit of the doubt.

If I said that to a man no one would think anything about it.

But surely it's a compliment. If someone looses weight it's obvious they've been working at it and to comment on it simply suggests that you've noticed and are acknowledging their hard work. It's very hard not to see someone without seeing that they have a body

When I used to visit an elderly uncle in care we would quite often go for a walk. He loved the company of small children, and adored mine when they were small, taking them for walks sitting talking to them but he and his wife had been childless.

He was a very unworldly man and all the concerns about child abuse etc had gone past him without calling in and whenever we met a small child when out, he would immediately start talking to them and asking their name and other essentially innocent things. He really could not understand why I would urge him to move on.

I relied on the fact that as I was with him and his age and frailty were obvious no parent with the child would be worried by his interest in talking to their child.

But I find it very sad that that perfectly innocent interchanges between adult men and children or women has been so unnecessarily made sexually threatening.

I am not in denial, I am in proprortion.

vampirequeen

Lucca

Question, if a male acquaintance says “your hair suits you like that “. Is that ok ?if he says “you’ve lost weight !” Is that ok ?

That's my point exactly. Innocent compliments can now be construed as harassment or abuse.

To me the hair one is ok but the weight one is iffy implying he is looking at your body ? Unless he’s a very good friend

Galaxy

My point was your DH is worrying about being polite those women are worrying about how to deal with exposure in a workplace.

But that's another topic. My OP is that I feel sorry for normal none abusive men who have to watch everything they say and do for fear of causing offence or being labelled as pervs.

Women cant know who is predatory, these men dont wear signs.

I agree Lucca of course there are men who behave or speak inappropriately but most do not. Offence is taken often where none was intended and as you say its counter productive.

“ I also feel sorry for young men who are led on by girls who are dressed in skimpy, tight outfits and who act provocatively. What do these girls expect when things go too far, and get out of hand.”

Ouch. No!