'Trans' a book about transactivism

GagaJo, you still haven’t told us what ‘real life experience’ you think would quality us to make valuable contributions to this thread.

Sorry-what do you mean by a REAL trans person's life? Are there real and unreal transpeople? Just kidding. I might just buy the book for my own interest. But Leslie Feinberg is describing complexity of life as a butch lesbian who presents as a man. That one experience does not mean that, in this case, all women prisoners should be put at risk of assault, rape or harassment in prison to comply with the demands of the trans lobby. Prison is an example of when sex really does matter.

Here's an interesting piece about a woman's experience in prison. Sadly she is not the only one to discover that some transwomen should not be taken at their word. Julie Bindel conducted the interview and got it published in the Mail. The Guardian were not interested apparently.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9819631/I-sexually-assaulted-womens-prison-fellow-inmate-male-genitalia.html

Gagajo leave them to it. They want to wallow in the exploits of a few ill people. They have nothing against the trans commnity of course.

Hullo again trisher.
Did you take 16 minutes to listen to the real life experience of prison governor, Rhona Hotchkiss?

Aveline

One REAL transperson's life.

No. The book has a narrator whose life is described, but it also details the experiences of a lot of other trans people.

Exactly trisher. The view that trans women would alienate themselves from friends and family, be viewed as something between a freak and a laughing stock, damage their health and massively reduce their changes of a 'normal' life JUST to infiltrate women only spaces is paranoia gone mad. No point discussing it.

No Petunia, Leslie Fineberg went through a series of stages. From girl, to butch lesbian, to trans man, to gender neutral. Identifying as a butch is frequently a staging post on the way to recognising ones trans identity. Hence the close links with lesbian/gay communities.

Gagajo Are you describing people who transition above?

If not, in what way do self-identifying transwomen damage their health?

As people in here have reiterated to the point of tedium, it is only this group about whom we have concerns, and only then in certain circumstances. Or are you not reading the thread either?

I am still interested to know the answer to the ‘real life experience’ question incidentally.

Read. Find out how being trans can damage health.

If you want to debate, gain more understanding.

I asked about self-identification and how that would impact on health. I can see that gender dysmorphia would affect mental health, that is not the same thing, is it?

It is not possible to debate when people won’t engage. Trisha left the thread when people didn’t agree with her, and you claim that nobody but you and she has ‘real life experience’ but refuse to define what that means.

I think there are many people on this thread who have read, listened to debates and watched many programmes around trans. I know I have. To tell us all to read and gain more understanding is a little insulting to be honest.
I too would be interested in what life experience we are expected to have in order to fully understand the issue.

Being told to read in order to gain understanding is particularly ironic when we have been accused of being too theoretical ?.

It feels like we are being set up to fail here.

Could someone point me to where it has been posted on GN that ‘transwomen would alienate themselves from friends and family, be viewed as something between a freak and a laughing stock, damage their health and massively reduce their chances (changes) of a ‘normal’ life JUST to infiltrate women only spaces?”
That’s terribly insulting to the majority of transwomen. Since selfID without surgery has been allowed, the number of self ID has increased more than the surgical route.

Some trans consider surgery an essential part of their transition. Others do not and that is their choice.
I have no figures for whether those using their trans status to gain access to natal women only spaces or activities have had surgery. It would really only matter if they used their male strength or appendages to intimidate or attack women.
It would be more accurate to say that a few men, identifying as transwomen but quite often avoiding the painful surgery involved in complete gender reassignment, use that status to endanger women in prison and are allowed to do so even when they have been incarcerated for attacking or raping women.

GagaJo, exactly how many such attacks on women in prison would be acceptable before the rights of natal women would take precedence over the rights of transwomen instead of the other way round as it is now?

Mollygo I'd hazard a guess some would answer your final question with n+1. For them there will never be enough offences to warrant a change of stance.

Surely the right to be protected from probable attack, or fear of attack, should take precedence over the right to validate an identity (which might not even be a truly believed identity).

Unfortunately, a recent court case found that it is lawful for the Prison Service to decide otherwise - although it did acknowledge the distress and danger that is being caused to women prisoners.

I realise transmen are in a completely different social situation.
But with our friend whose daughter has changed =
The last time they came to our house she was carrying a big stick and was careful to cover her sprouting beard with a mask.
I suspected fear of reaction from the local youth, I know what they're like. it's a rough area.
I think she belongs to a local support group where the leader has published in a local paper that she's looking into ways to reverse the effects of testosterone treatment.

That's very sad Fennel if the girl has changed her mind.
It's unlikely she'll be able to reverse all the effects of testosterone but I hope she hasn't damaged herself too much, if she hasn't been taking it for very long.

Since selfID without surgery has been allowed, the number of self ID has increased more than the surgical route.
Another of the myths perpetuated on GN. Self ID in the UK is not legal and gender change still requires a medical diagnosis. And gender reasignment surgery has never been a requirement .https://www.ngalaw.co.uk/knowledge-centre/changing-your-legal-gender-in-the-uk

Wow trisher, I thought you’d decided to stop posting. Welcome back!
You’re wrong anyway.

The police and prison services are accepting a person's self-declared gender identity as their sex.

So are many other organisations.

Earlier this year [2019] it emerged those accused of a crime can self-declare their gender without providing any evidence.

But Police Scotland has been unable to confirm when that change was made, saying the policy “evolved” over time.

www.scotsman.com/news/crime/police-scotland-criticised-over-allowing-suspects-self-identify-gender-1416288

FarNorth please stop posting facts, it just offends those that would rather not acknowledge the truth. Our prison service, in the whole UK, is so captured, even a judge ruled that putting intact male genitalia in a female prison was legal and acknowledged it wasn't necessarily the best outcome for natal females. But hey ho, when did natal women ever take precedence?

They may be applying its in police stations but it's not actually the law about transitioning. Now I'm quite willing to believe there may be some predatory individuals choosing to self ID as female for their own ends. But that is absolutely nothing to do with transpeople or the trans community. It's just another form of sexual perversion and just as we don't blame children because some men are interested in them sexually we shouldn't be blamng the trans community for this. So the whole concept of the book is false. It's nothing to do with transitioning and nothing to do with transwomen.
If you want to challenge something try challenging perverts and stop linking it with trans anything.

Who is blaming the whole trans community for the actions of a few?
For the n+1th time, there are a only a few out of those who transition or self ID who use it for any purpose which is to the detriment of natal women.
Has anyone on here suggested that transwomen who cheat in sport are perverts?
Or that any trans whose claims take precedence over those of natal women in getting jobs are perverts?
Or that transwomen who are allowed into spaces which should be for natal women are perverts?

Natal women’s safety might actually get further if you could challenge those in the latter category as ‘perverts’, but if you challenge them as trans, the immediate reaction, even from those who should be supporting the safety of women would be shouts of ‘transphobic’ or ‘TERF’.

Well writing a book called "Trans-When ideology meets reality"would seem to imply some connection with the transcommunity wouldn't it?
Especially as the author is an outspoken trans opponent.

It really is like talking to yourself, isn't it, Mollygo?

We all keep saying that we are not against the trans community, but this is ignored. Instead there are diversionary posts questioning our feminism, posts telling us to get 'life experience', posts telling us to read more but not to be theoretical, posts telling us that being concerned about men competing in women's categories in sport is ignoring the plight of black female athletes and so on.

I repeat - it is impossible to debate with those who will not engage, either because they ignore the main point that we are making, think that they know our minds better than we do, or because they leave the thread when they have no answers.