table manners

One way of approaching this is to explain to your grandchildren how they make you feel when they do something that alarms you at the table.
At present, you are clearly exasperated about securing better manners, and may be using disciplinarian tactics that are not very effective if they are putting their feet on the table, etc.
We grew up in an age where we were expected to obey, and be obedient to the wishes of our parents.
When we use dictatorial tactics, some children respond with even worse behaviour than before, to our utter despair.
However, try appealing to the children's better nature, and explain how you would like to see them behave, and see how they respond to that.
As a primary teacher, I explained to a six year old boy whose family life meant that he even found it difficult to sit still for a story, that every minute of our lives offers us the possibility to make a change in how we behave.
'Choose to change', was how I expressed it.
It had an immediate effect, and he wrestled mentally with himself to make the effort to sit still from then on.
I wish you well in your relationship with your grandchildren.
My daughter is estranged from me, and I have not seen my only grandchild for over a year, so enjoy and cherish them.

They are your grandchildren, as long as they are not rude or adopt really bad habits at the table, just enjoy them while you can. They don't stay young forever and will develop table skills as they get older

This is a subject my husband and I and our friends talk about a lot!! It seems the modern way is not to teach them table manners...out of 5 grandchildren only one eats with a knife and fork, the rest use fingers for nearly everything!! And all eat with mouths open. They range between 5 and 10. I have decided it’s not my business and so long as the chairs are protected from sticky fingers etc I leave them to it and don’t eat with them because I can’t bear to watch. Hoping it improves, but do wonder how they will learn if never shown by their parents ?? Time will tell.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

This a great way to get your full attention, and its working. What a wonderful weapon you've given them!
Difficult, but ignore it.
Leave them on the floor, leave the feet, elbows, heads on the table and carry on with your meal.
Serve your own pudding and eat it without comment, in fact carry on as if they're not there at all. Don't even speak to them.
Only interfere if they start throwing food or cutlery.

I'm with you Catlover. Yes, it is for the parents to monitor the manners of their children but in your house it is your rules. As for manners improving with age I see no real evidence for this judging by the table manners on display at restaurants and coffee shops. Food slopped all over the table and on the floor, crammimg as much in their mouths as they can, getting up, running about and shouting at the top of their voices. All this while Mummy and Daddy sit nicely and assume we are enjoying the bad behaviour. I agree that it is not the fault of the children, there is less sitting at the table, in fact a lot of families don't even have a table as eating habits have changed so much. My grandsons each have a tv table with knives and forks (in the kitchen) and yes they watch something I have recorded for them but I still expect decent manners and I get them !

At that age they should be up to behaving themselves in basic ways eg holding cutlery correctly, asking to leave table, please/thank you. In your house you have right to expect decent table manners. In their house you don’t. It’s irritating to be reminded of manners as a child but learning how to behave in public starts in the home. If they’re used to TV dinners then knowing how to behave at table is even more important and kids are quite capable of making the distinction from an early age. They just choose not to if allowed to!

children will learn to hold a knife and fork at different ages, don't make a big thing about it or the kids might not want to go to your house, some houses don't have the space for a table for family to all sit together, my last house and this house has no space for a table, just enjoy spending time with your gc.

I'mwith Cozzy. stop being prim and enjoy yourGC. you get to see them and have meals together. lots don't. My GD also has dyspraxia and is a bit messy. Her mum is brilliant with her and there has been an improvement. because of arthritis I tend to use a fork - no one has ever said anything to me, but there were a few nasty rude comments onGN a few months ago about people not using a knife and fork - Kids grow up - don't let their memories of you be of telling them off for such trivia.

I went to a restaurant recently where the was a family - mum, dad and two children around 10 and 12 ish. All I can say is that I have seen chimpanzees at the zoo with better table manners. When they did use cutlery, which wasn't often, they shovelled food into their mouths, they dripped the sauces all over the table, they ate with their hand more often than not and they leaned across everyone to get what they needed. Their parents seem to be oblivious to it all. As they were right within my eyeshot it was impossible not to notice. Somethings do need to be taught and it is the parents who should take responsibility for this. I think that many parents are so busy with full time jobs etc that they sometimes take the easy route for a simple life, which is let the child do as they please.

Many people don’t even have a table to sit at and never use cutlery as fast food is finger food. Horrible thought but true. Lots of children start school never having seen cutlery never mind knowing how to use it. Some children think it’s posh to use cutlery ! The only “restaurant “ they have ever been to is MacDonalds !!! Very sad but true.

The sliding under the table feet up, definite no no. If they can't sit, make them stand. Do you have appropriate sized cutlery for them? Adult sized can be tricky to handle for them. Just keep reminding them to use the cutlery but don't make a scene. Persistence without threats. A lot of children nowadays have hardly used cutlery having been reared on finger food eg chicken/fish nuggets, fries, sausages, or having had food cut up for them to enable them to eat up quickly and not make a mess.

What was her beef with that? He was asking to leave the table, would she rather he wet himself?

Teaching grandchildren is not for you to do. You brought you children up as you felt necessary. The grandchildren manners are not your problem. .dont interfere

Are the children expected to use adult cultlery, or do they still use a children's size?

A full sized fork or knife can be quite unmanageable for small hands.

On another thread about the same problem, I suggested making a game: Today we will all eat the way grandma was taught as a child. Sit up straight, elbows off the table, and use your knife and fork properly

Another game could be pretending to be at a grown-up dinner party - again with reference to when grandma was little and her parents held dinner parties, as I doubt your grandchildren know what a dinner party is!

Times change - I too was sent from the table if I didn't eat up, played with my food etc. I agree we didn't learn table manners by standing at the kitchen table to eat, but that wasn't the point of that particular exercise. It was a small punishment for bad behaviour. "You can come in again and sit with us at the table if you can eat properly."

I would worry more about the children ignoring the grown ups and getting away with it, so I understand why their parents send them away from the table.

A remark such as, "Please don't ignore me - it is rude not to answer when you are spoken to" would be in place here.

It sounds to me as if you and the children's parents are in agreement here, so I don't agree with the poster who said it was the parents' place to correct the children, not yours.

To me, you are fully entitled to correct a child whose manners don't come up to the standard the parents demand, if the children are in your home. Likewise if the child is ignoring you, you surely do not need to wait for the parent to correct her.

I don't remember my husband or myself teaching our boys table manners. However my brother who well knew this a snobbish world did teach his daughters details such as how to use the soup spoon properly.

His daughter adored him so I guess it was easy for him to teach them.

I have a cautionary tale regarding table manners.
When our children were small, DH always used to insist on good manners saying, “You need to behave when the Queen invites you to tea,”. They all laughed their heads off. Then - when she was 18 DD was invited to Buckingham Palace…. So her good table manners were not in vain.
Who knows when you may find yourself in a similar situation?

Years ago I worked with a very clever man, First from Cambridge. He was in his late 50s, was unmarried and had no friends. Not surprising if you witnessed him eating. Mouth always open, and talking at the same time. It was a disgusting sight. Obviously never corrected as a child. No mental issues to excuse the behaviour.

A small child seated in their high chair at the table while parents are eating even though the child may have already been fed is no bad thing. Children learn by example and if any one is to blame for bad manners look no further than an adult..

Manners are important in general - please and thank you go a long way - and table manners are part of that. But everyone has different lifestyles and expectations and as a grandparent I’d rather they came to me for meals and remembered them as happy family times rather than constantly being in trouble and even sent from the table for what I consider to be minor issues. I’d never dream of doing that with any of our grandchildren as it’s not my role. I might show a different way of doing it or offer assistance and hopefully set a good example but never punish and certainly not forbid pudding! I guess we’re all different with different ideas of how to help our grandchildren to grow in to kind, polite, helpful and friendly adults. I love having my grandchildren for meals and they are always happy, chatty times even if their table manners aren’t always perfect.

I think, as grandparents, I would leave this to the parents. In your position l would try and make mealtimes as pleasant as possible, including them in the general conversation. If they speak with food in their mouths you could remind them along the lines of “wait until you have finished that mouthful.”

This reminds me of the time, many years ago, that we were eating a meal at an older relative’s house with our daughter, who was fifteen months old at the time. There were several older aunts and uncles and I felt very much on display. Fortunately, our daughter proved to be a real trouper and sat quietly on a booster seat and proceeded to eat all her dinner with great enjoyment using a spoon and fork. Relief was the order of the day.

I'm afraid I couldn't enjoy a mealtime if children were slipping under the table and putting feet on it etc. And eating noisily with mouth open would be a definite no no.
I wouldn't really care how they held their cutlery, as long as they used cutlery. I'm not sure it matters really nowadays.
How would they know not to behave like this when in a restaurant? I remember my sisters children doing things like this when we went out for a meal. It was embarrassing and unpleasant and the staff were not imrpessed. Needless to say I never went out with them again.
I'm not sure there's much you can do abut it, except maybe if you are looking after them, you can reinforce it by saying if you behave, there's a special treat after dinner. And praising them for it if they cooperate.

I'm totally in agreement with GreyKnitter on this - yes, table manners are important, but to me, it's more important that mealtimes are an enjoyable occasion and not an ordeal. I'd much rather my grandson grew up with happy memories of us all sitting round the table eating as a family and enjoying it, than be threatened with various punishments or sent away from the table.

To learn how to conduct yourself at a meal table is every bit as important as please or thank you etc.

Sadly I have see many adults who cannot eat with a knife and fork, sitting down to dinner wearing a hat, waving cutlery around and generally behaving like oiks.

HKLP is the most common and starting to eat before everyone has their food.

It would be nice to go back to the time when teachers headed every table in the refectory and enforced good table manners.

It is so important and not always taught at home..

I don’t remember teaching my OC any table manners or how to hold a knife and fork. Surely that is set by example? Children copy what they see. I can only suggest not sitting them next or near to each other which may encourage silliness.