M&S diversity officers give staff pronoun badges……. a step too far?

But why is it OK for you to deny them the pronoun they choose Rosie51. If someone used the wrong pronoun about you I assume you wouldn't be happy, but they are just epected to put up with it?

Rosie I am a trans ally, I value and appreciate them and will use their preferred pronouns when needed and defend their right to them.

It doesn't matter how often I get the opportunity to.

Of course you being polite and thankful regardless of their preferred pronouns is a beautiful thing too

The article is spot on. its a lowering of defences to achieve a similar aim.

what are the repurcussions for calling a male a male?

VioletSky

But Rosie I am here defending their rights to preferred pronouns because I value and appreciate these people.

But are customers in the slightest bit interested as they would, in all probability, never use those pronouns?

They want to know where the sliced gluten-free bread is now, they may want to have a little grumble because the food hall has been completely rearranged (yes, I know it's not the fault of the store assistant and she/he/they agreed with me) or where the packs of knickers are but in all those instances there is no need to address anyone by a pronoun!

I suppose my preferring, as a woman, to be called she/her/hers is the same as giving everyone a good dose of LSD

Pronouns are not the enemy lol

She should be jn a female prison.
He should be in a female prison.
Sorry if I am not lol.

If you think that, you clearly have misunderstood the article.
pronouns are not the enemy. .In that you are right. its the misuse of language that is.

Its not misuse when trans people are out there, living their lives and just want to do so authentically.

Violetsky do you think , as a trans ally, that a man who who identifies as a women, but is still a biological man should be allowed in the swimming pool communal female changing room?

Pronouns are in the eye of the beholder.

GrannyMacawell

Violetsky do you think , as a trans ally, that a man who who identifies as a women, but is still a biological man should be allowed in the swimming pool communal female changing room?

or to do a woman who is disabled personal care where female only personal care s specified?

The other thing is, if they weren't asking to be recognised, if they weren't demanding the same rights we women have demanded over the years, people would be then telling them, they can't really be the gender they identify as because they aren't fighting for it.

It's a no win in some scenarios for trans people but I and many others do value and accept them.

We value and accept them while acknowledging and understanding the fears and struggles of women.

We seek acceptance, compromise and integration into society. Not in a black and white way but in an all of the colours of the rainbow way. In a way where everyone can coexist and feel safe.

Happily.

That just won't change for me. Despite silly articles or statements that work on the basis that trans people should not exist, that they aren't valid, that they are too few to matter, that they are responsible for the bad deeds of the very few etc etc etc. Because they do exist, they are people just like you and I and they aren't going anywhere.

Isn't it funny how a simple question like the use of chosen pronouns always results in people posting the same comments about swimming pools, changing rooms or toilets. It just shows that actually there is no real reason for not allowing people to say which pronoun they prefer so something else has to be brought in.

and to answer my question?

GrannyMacawell

Violetsky do you think , as a trans ally, that a man who who identifies as a women, but is still a biological man should be allowed in the swimming pool communal female changing room?

Oh, I'm sure someone else will tell me or you my actual opinion on that one. I've been told many times what I must think even though I realise women need safe spaces. I've said it many times but it isn't heard anyway because I'm a trans ally and therefor "bad".

Read all the many many other threads on this subject that are basically the same discussion.

I hide them eventually because I get fed up with seeing my name crop up for further interpolation or assertion that I must think xyz

Of you cant understand how the use of pronouns impacts on the issues mentioned I dont know how to help you.

How is me asking a question telling you what you think?

I ask because I want to know what you think

VioletSky

The other thing is, if they weren't asking to be recognised, if they weren't demanding the same rights we women have demanded over the years, people would be then telling them, they can't really be the gender they identify as because they aren't fighting for it.

It's a no win in some scenarios for trans people but I and many others do value and accept them.

We value and accept them while acknowledging and understanding the fears and struggles of women.

We seek acceptance, compromise and integration into society. Not in a black and white way but in an all of the colours of the rainbow way. In a way where everyone can coexist and feel safe.

Happily.

That just won't change for me. Despite silly articles or statements that work on the basis that trans people should not exist, that they aren't valid, that they are too few to matter, that they are responsible for the bad deeds of the very few etc etc etc. Because they do exist, they are people just like you and I and they aren't going anywhere.

My answer is here, it's in compromise its in finding a way forward that allows trans people to be their authentic selves and allows women to feel safe.

If you want me to solve all the issues around that like bathrooms and changing rooms and prisonsor sports, I don't have all the answers. I think it's up to individual bodies to safeguard their use and make provision for those who use them.

More options basically.

Nobody thinks its your job to solve the issue of single sex spaces to be honest if I thought it was your job I would be offering you a bribe as we speak.

It's a simple question.

VioletSky I appreciate that you are unable to solve all the issues around that like bathrooms and changing rooms and prisonsor sports but, as a "trans ally" please could you answer the questions that I raised upthread regarding the apparent need for pronoun badges? I've posted them again here:

Why do we have to be informed of their sex? If it doesn't matter to us; why is there the need to tell us? All customers want to do is go in, buy their stuff, pay and leave. Why do they need to know anything personal about the shop assistant? I could see the relevance of "dyslexic" or "colour blind" on a badge because that could affect how they assist customers. But it still hasn't explained what benefit providing pronouns is to the customer.

Thank goodness because I'd be rubbish at it. I do accept bribes in the form of tea and cake

Chewbacca

VioletSky I appreciate that you are unable to solve all the issues around that like bathrooms and changing rooms and prisonsor sports but, as a "trans ally" please could you answer the questions that I raised upthread regarding the apparent need for pronoun badges? I've posted them again here:

Why do we have to be informed of their sex? If it doesn't matter to us; why is there the need to tell us? All customers want to do is go in, buy their stuff, pay and leave. Why do they need to know anything personal about the shop assistant? I could see the relevance of "dyslexic" or "colour blind" on a badge because that could affect how they assist customers. But it still hasn't *explained what benefit providing pronouns is to the customer.*

Because it matters to them that they aren't misgendered and because its respectful to use their preferred pronouns. It also shows that we support them.

That's all I have

This does not apply if you self id as anything else that you are actually not.