Ghislaine Maxwell

My brother in law was born in New Zealand. His parents were born in London. He lives in Australia. He has British, New Zealand and Australian passports.

Ghislaine Maxwell has not yet been tried and until that happens and there is a result, she must be presumed innocent.

US prison condtions are inhumane whether you are on remand or convicted and their justice system is unjust and riddles with prejudice.

The person guilty of the abuse was Epstein, who committed suicide/was murdered. The authorities are using her as a scapegoat to cover their incompetence in looking after Epstein.

If she was given bail, as many people are, where she stays is a question of her finances, the authorities will not be paying for it. Most people return to their homes. Ghislaine Maxwell has no home in the United States so, if she, or friends and relatives, can afford it, why shouldn't she stay in a luxury hotel?

I seem to recognise a number of names on this thread who were also on the thread about not being judgemental. A question of theory and practice?

Well, leaving aside the question of whether or not posters are judgmental, a whole other debate, if you know there is a warrant out for your arrest and you do your best to hide, you are incriminating yourself.
Similarly, if you are known to be likely to do a runner at the first chance, will an expensive hotel be secure or will it offer your buddies a chance to spring you? And what about the cost, in prison it won't cost the state extra.
Finally, conditions in prison in the US and here are abominable. I can't see a reason for GM to be given special status. Remanded in custody, it's for serious crimes and people who can't be trusted. It isn't a judgement either way.

The person guilty of the abuse was Epstein, who committed suicide/was murdered. The authorities are using her as a scapegoat to cover their incompetence in looking after Epstein.

Yes, she's innocent until proven guilty in the American justice system.

However, she has been charged with eight counts of recruiting and grooming underage girls, of procuring them for sexual abuse by others.

That seems serious enough for her to be detained in custody. People with influential, wealthy connections have been known to escape justice, as she already attempted to do. If she is on suicide watch she will be observed constantly especially since her partner managed to kill himself in prison, perhaps as you believe allegedly.
Prison is basic, not a luxury hotel.
The conditions are probably far better than many have to live in who are not charged with any crime.

Agree MOnica

Of course those retained for trial are innocent until proven guilty, but those deemed to be a risk of either absconding or committing further crime are generally refused bail.

The point is that if Maxwell had not associated with a known peadophile nor cruised the streets inviting young school girls to meet Epstein she would not be in the position she is in.
She is old enough to know the score. She has had everything life could offer. She is being treated no different from those on remand as a result of crimes committed through poverty etc, or as a result of their poor upbringing. I know which one I would have sympathy for.

I didn’t know she had been found guilty of cruising the streets inviting young girls to meet Epstein

If I was in the US and a warrant was out for my arrest, I would be trying to get over the border to Canada to avoid arrest, whether I was innocent or guilty, knowing that my innocence would not protect me from arrest and degrading treatment

The US prison service is brutal and its justice system is deeply flawed. This is the country that has just jailed a woman because she had a miscarriage.

Your last sentence is not quite fair, M0nica. Most of the States of the US would not jail a woman for a miscarriage. Texas has a new law that is draconian and there may be some others following suit, but these are state laws, not laws of the whole country

But State laws are the greater part of the American legal system, each state makes its own laws and any system that can accommodate laws like this, is not to be trusted and to be feared.

But WWM1 that is just the point - that the American legal system is brutal before they even know whether they are guilty or not.

You, yourself, are jumping to judgment. She is alleged to have cruised the streets looking for schoolgirls. She has yet to be tried and convicted of that crime. We have only heard from the people making those allegations and it is in their intersts to make these accusations.

It has also been suggested that the US authorities are piling on the agony with charge after charge because they want her to enter a plea bargain, admit guilt and get a lighter sentence because they do not want a full hearing because it will reveal to the public the extent Epstein's behaviour was ignored and he was allowed to operate with impunity because he knew all the right people in the right places.

The recent resignation of the Chairman of Barclay's bank revealed just how extensive his contact with Epstein was, although there is no suggestion he was involved in any of Epsteins sexual misdemeanours. Epstein wove a very wide and influential net around himself and maxwell may well be the fall guy.

Who has suggested that the US authorities are piling on the pressure so that they don't have to have a full hearing? There is so much speculation around this trial and around Epstein and his behaviour. Is that any more sound than insisting that GM is only alleged to have trafficked girls? There are some pretty sordid stories out there and the pursuit of Prince Andrew has hardly been done lightly. There is a case to answer.

GM was rightly held on remand as she is evidently a flight risk and possibly more likely, a murder risk due to the alleged high profile users of the services provided by Epstein. But, she is not yet guilty, has not even had her trial so is innocent of all charges in the eye of the law. It reflects very badly on a so called civilised first world country that remand prisoners are treated so appallingly.

I know that dual nationality is common, but how does she swing triple nationality?

I have dual nationality, British plus another, DH has dual nationality, British plus a different one to me. The children have triple nationality.

My sisters children have triple nationality but the third one is different to my children.

My brothers children also have triple nationality but the third one isn't the same as mine or my sisters.

From the latest reports from the trial it appears that she has had her roots dyed for her appearance in court. If this is true how does that balance with the supposed neglect and abuse she has suffered?

I think it is wrong for anyone to live in solitary confinement and be dehumanised as claimed. However, if she has written a book inside, has had her roots done, I do wonder how true the claims are. I believe millions have been set aside to fight the case, it doesn’t add up. No wonder Andrew is keeping his head down, he would not have an easy time.

I’m sorry that Maxwell does not find her accommodation pleasant, we know that is alleged that she groomed girls for Epstein, that is entirely plausible. The most dangerous grooming is when it is done by a woman, Rose West, Myra Hindley, and others, so let’s not speculate, there may be a lot more to find out.

American prisons seem to be a whole lot worse than many others in the so called ‘ developed’ nations. They are not that developed, still a frontier mentality and this is reflected. I have absolutely no sympathy for the woman but as a human being she should be treated decently.

M0nica

If I was in the US and a warrant was out for my arrest, I would be trying to get over the border to Canada to avoid arrest, whether I was innocent or guilty, knowing that my innocence would not protect me from arrest and degrading treatment

The US prison service is brutal and its justice system is deeply flawed. This is the country that has just jailed a woman because she had a miscarriage.

Canada would hand you back over. We have extradition here. Canada has, in the past, refused to hand over prisoners to face a death sentence, but for everything else? Nope, we're not keeping you.

The sexism on this thread is appalling. How can she have a fair trial (and her lawyers have made this point) when everyone is so convinced she is guilty before she even comes to trial that they have doubts as to whether they can even get a jury that is not convinced she is guilty before the trial starts.

Any country that still has the death penalty- we’re talking about you USA - can’t have a decent justice system. In fact aren’t they the only Western nation that still executes people?

There is a slight difference between having her roots done and writing a book. if Ghislaine Maxwell has been held in solitary confinement she would have little else to do other than write, and it would certainly be a way of clarifying her actions within her own mind, over along period of time, whether or not her writings are intended for publication.
'Doing her roots ' was apparently done with the aid of hair dye purchased from the prison stores, just before her appearance, but of course, I could be wrong.

I’m not sure what sexism has to do with the Maxwell case, it seems fairly straightforward, either witness come forward to say they were groomed or they don’t. I doubt she is high profile enough to attract many false statements as Prince Andrew might.
Epstein was supplying girls to high society in the US, Maxwell may well be at serious risk because of what she knows, any ideas about writing a book may make some very nervous.

Interestingly I read that Maxwell is sueing the Epstein estate - money put by to compensate the victims - for her legal fees.

What is unusual about this case are the abundance of witnesses.

Of course there are a couple of high profile ones, but there are many, many others. Because the girls were so young many have been afraid to speak out because most had not told their parents, some had been paid off, others had decided that they are never going to speak about it, preferring to put the past behind them. Epstein’s intimidation factor was very strong.

There are 50+ witnesses however, who are prepared to speak out, and they all tell the same story. Maxwell helped Epstein coerce poor school girls into giving $200 massages, (she did this by cruising the streets after school inviting girls into her 4x4) those deemed by Epstein as “promising” were then trafficked to his rich and powerful friends, at parties in his New York mansion, and his island in the BVI. Maxwell, although living with Epstein at the time of the crimes denies any involvement.

Most of the girls were 14 years of age.

I am curious and in no way mitigating what Epstein did but where the the abused parents when they were being flown out of the country? It appears from what I have read they never questioned where their children were disappearing to?