Vagina Museum

trisher Presumably you meant your answer at 17:18:19 to Doodledog not me?? We may agree on many aspects but we're not yet interchangeable

Not addressing the whole intersex fiction then, or whether the 100s of genders should qualify for inclusion on passports?

"Do you mind if this person pats you down or would you prefer a man/woman?" Now there's a revolutionary idea! do you go through airports much? Of course I've not flown for almost 3 years but I don't think I've met many airport officials quite so wordy or engaging.
Why would you not outright defend a female employee's right not to have to pat down a male passenger in Galaxy's example?

Rosie51 Try think most people 'just are', and don't see NB as a recognised gender. I don't see gender as important,
Possibly because you are happy with the gender you are. To say that it isn't important is showing prejudice towards those who think it is important. Not recognising non-binary as a gender choice is prejudice.
It is manifestly obvious that gender is important to some people and not recognising that fact is prejudice.

trisher you're doing it again, quoting Doodledog and ascribing it to me.

I meant attributing obviously.

Lathyrus

trisher

Lathyrus

It’s a pity the trans communities don’t think as you do but are active in persecuting women, homosexuals and lesbians.

How contradictory that you ally yourself with them.

I don't believe the majority of the trans community are doing this Lathyrus but if you have some statistics to prove it I'm willing to be put right.

There cannot be any statistics of the type you request because incidences of assault and harassment by transwomen are recorded as incidences carried out by women and vice versa for transmen.

The trans communities will therefore always register at zero for crime of any kind.

There is however much evidence of violence, persecution and harassment by the trans communities towards the groups I spoke of. Cases of lesbians being groomed or threatened into sex with transwomen, of homosexuals harassed on the streets, of natal women being assaulted in what should have been safe spaces.

Some have reached court and have been posted about about on these threads. As we know from Rape cases statistically many more will have been hidden public view.

So effective is the silencing that soon even the public cases will cease to exist. Even if a woman has been raped the fact of the penis will be irrelevant. It will be a crime committed by a woman.

Sigh.

Best to just ignore this then trisha.

After all, what’s the persecution of some old gays, a bunch of lesbians and some silly women in the grand scheme of things.

I really can’t understand why you have this picture of yourself as fighting for equality for all??‍♀️

Apologies Rosie51 it is hard to keep two converataions going and even harder to keep 3 (or is it 4) still the allegation of prejudice and the obvious example of the prejudice displayed on his thread remains whoever said it. But if you like to acknowledge there is prejudice that's fine with me.

trisher

Apologies Rosie51 it is hard to keep two converataions going and even harder to keep 3 (or is it 4) still the allegation of prejudice and the obvious example of the prejudice displayed on his thread remains whoever said it. But if you like to acknowledge there is prejudice that's fine with me.

Can you point to the prejudice, please?

All I can see is you pre-judging about what people might want to say to their MP/have put on a passport/aspire to.

I really can’t understand why you have this picture of yourself as fighting for equality for all??‍♀️

No, many of us have been saying for a long time that what is described as 'intersectional feminism' is actually internalised misogyny. I have never seen a post from trisher that puts the needs, rights or safety of women ahead of, or even on an equal footing with those of men or transwomen. Never.

Don't put words into my mouth trisha
I don't have a gender, but can acknowledge there are others who are convinced they do. I don't have to agree with their supposition and that's not prejudice at all. People believe all sorts of unprovable things that I don't, and if I was compelled to believe them too that's nothing short of tyranny. I may not like every provable fact but I accept it as fact (unlike some who believe in 3 or more sexes).

Lathyrus I fully admit I haven't replied. It left me with such astonishment and incredulity that I find it very difficult to say anything.
In 2015-2017 many transwomen died in prison usually at their own hands. some of them were undoubtedly violent people but did they deserve to die? I think not. But of course they are largely forgotten, perhaps because they don't fit the general portrayal of what happens to transwomen.

If you can post me one of my posts where I have dismissed, disregarded, approved of or in any way negated any violence towards any person whatever their gender designation sexual orientation or any other classification you care to name I fully apologise but I really don't think you can.
You on the other hand have cast a slur on every member of a community which has as many attitudes, differences and diversity as any other and which has an established record of victimisation.
So whatever you think of me really doesn't matter to me

Rosie51

trisher Presumably you meant your answer at 17:18:19 to Doodledog not me?? We may agree on many aspects but we're not yet interchangeable

Not addressing the whole intersex fiction then, or whether the 100s of genders should qualify for inclusion on passports?

"Do you mind if this person pats you down or would you prefer a man/woman?" Now there's a revolutionary idea! do you go through airports much? Of course I've not flown for almost 3 years but I don't think I've met many airport officials quite so wordy or engaging.
Why would you not outright defend a female employee's right not to have to pat down a male passenger in Galaxy's example?

Well perhaps because I could forsee a situation where there might only be a female employee available. In that case the alternatives would seem to be
that all shifts employed people of both genders (but if there are only women available I don't see why a token man should have a job over a woman)
alternatively
a potential terrorist/drug smuggler could be standing in an airport waiting for a male employee to be contacted. If it is a terrorist would the female employee who refused to search them be responsible when a weapon or bomb went off?
Honestly do you really think I don't look at the absolute complexities of these things?
I may mix up names but actually I do care about these things and don't dismiss everytihng without investigation as it is obvious some people do.

Ignoring and denial is negation. That’s what it means. Ceasing to exist. You know, like the stated transpolicy of GayEradication.

You don’t have to actually state you are for it to promote it. You only have to promote the organisation that wants it and turn your face aside from the persecution that is designed to bring it about.

It is a cause that is dear to you. But I cannot understand how you continue to justify, to the world and yourself, the abuses that have taken place under its name.

trisher

Rosie51

trisher Presumably you meant your answer at 17:18:19 to Doodledog not me?? We may agree on many aspects but we're not yet interchangeable

Not addressing the whole intersex fiction then, or whether the 100s of genders should qualify for inclusion on passports?

"Do you mind if this person pats you down or would you prefer a man/woman?" Now there's a revolutionary idea! do you go through airports much? Of course I've not flown for almost 3 years but I don't think I've met many airport officials quite so wordy or engaging.
Why would you not outright defend a female employee's right not to have to pat down a male passenger in Galaxy's example?

Well perhaps because I could forsee a situation where there might only be a female employee available. In that case the alternatives would seem to be
that all shifts employed people of both genders (but if there are only women available I don't see why a token man should have a job over a woman)
alternatively
a potential terrorist/drug smuggler could be standing in an airport waiting for a male employee to be contacted. If it is a terrorist would the female employee who refused to search them be responsible when a weapon or bomb went off?
Honestly do you really think I don't look at the absolute complexities of these things?
I may mix up names but actually I do care about these things and don't dismiss everytihng without investigation as it is obvious some people do.

trisherMay I ask if you switch between using sex and gender deliberately? In your rather over the top scenario you are aware I take it that all airports have an armed police presence? Can you honestly imagine a situation where there was one lone female on security, who would be examining a person with a bomb about their person? TV fiction and films aren't reality programs.

What abuses have I ignored Lathyrus? What have I denied?
Are there violent transpeople?-undoubtedly.
Are the majority of transpeople violent ? I doubt that but if you have proof or evidence I will listen.
Do I approve of what you term "GayEradication" well first of all you have no idea of my sexual orientation because I seldom post private information. Nor can you post one exmple of any statement I have made to support that.
Have I ignored you? Well yes I have because as my intersectional feminist friends tell me there is no point in engaging with some people.

If internalised mysogyny is what you chose to call intersectional feminism then that is up to you. It doesn't of course make any allowances for black women who have spent years telling their white sisters that oppression and violence is worse for some women. Still I can see why you would think that, much easier than facing your own privilege.

Lathyrus I fully admit I haven't replied. It left me with such astonishment and incredulity that I find it very difficult to say anything.
What is it about Lathyrus' post that astounds you?
How many times have people said on here that the stats on transpeople are deeply flawed at best, as there is (rightly) no central register of people who 'identify' as such? How often have people pointed out that not all gay people (particularly lesbians) are happy to have TQ+ attached to LGB? Or that lesbians are regularly pressured into having sex (or vilified for refusing) on the grounds that a male body with a penis is not (supposedly) significantly different from a female one with a strap-on? Or pointed out that woman are being assaulted in what should be safe spaces? Why are you 'incredulous' to hear these things again?

Lathyrus is not casting a slur on transpeople. S/he is pointing out that some women, gay men and lesbians suffer at the hands of some TRAs. Which is true, and not a slur on the trans community. I have never seen you do anything other than leap to the defence of transpeople when these things come up. Of course you haven't defended the abuse, but you brush it aside by saying things like the law is there to prevent these things and if it is not upheld that is not the fault of transpeople, or that women should campaign to protect single sex spaces - you do similar with your point below about transwomen in female jails:

In 2015-2017 many transwomen died in prison usually at their own hands. some of them were undoubtedly violent people but did they deserve to die? I think not. But of course they are largely forgotten, perhaps because they don't fit the general portrayal of what happens to transwomen.
People can't remember these deaths if they are unaware of them, but anyway, why are trans criminals more important than female ones? The answer should be that trans prisoners are looked after more effectively in sex-appropriate jails, not that they should be foisted on vulnerable women in female ones.

The point is that if changing the law to accommodate transpeople makes women more vulnerable, it shouldn't happen. Not that we should be told about how transpeople suffer more.

Rosie51 I try to use the term the question is addressed as so if sex and gender is confused i'm not the one responsible .
You asked
Why would you not outright defend a female employee's right not to have to pat down a male passenger in Galaxy's example?
You then made strange and unfounded allegations about my reply. I think the point is if you don't want a reasoned reply don't ask the question. Not one female employee by the way. But a completely female shift including terrorist officers -yeah! But then some one will have to pat down the males!

When I have set off the bleepers in a queue staffed by a male officer he has simply gestured to the nearest female one and she takes over.

The term GayEradication is not mine but that of of stated transpolicy.

Once aware of it you have to either agree or disagree. There really is no middle ground.

And if you agree the question is what level of coercion you will support to bring it about.

If you disagree then you have to stand up and say this is wrong.

Lathyrus

The term GayEradication is not mine but that of of stated transpolicy.

Once aware of it you have to either agree or disagree. There really is no middle ground.

And if you agree the question is what level of coercion you will support to bring it about.

If you disagree then you have to stand up and say this is wrong.

Firstly whose transpolicy?
Secondly I don't agree with eradicating anyone no matter what their gender, sex, sexual orientation, race, religion, politics or any other of the delineations that patriarchy has traditionally used to seperate and divide people. No intersectional feminist does. Degrees of oppression very but oppression of minorities is how the patriarchy survives. I want to destroy it why would I even consider eliminating any minority?

trisher

Rosie51 I try to use the term the question is addressed as so if sex and gender is confused i'm not the one responsible .
You asked
Why would you not outright defend a female employee's right not to have to pat down a male passenger in Galaxy's example?
You then made strange and unfounded allegations about my reply. I think the point is if you don't want a reasoned reply don't ask the question. Not one female employee by the way. But a completely female shift including terrorist officers -yeah! But then some one will have to pat down the males!

Strange and unfounded allegations? Are you OK?
a female employee available. In that case the alternatives would seem to be that all shifts employed people of both genders using female at the start and then both genders when obviously both sexes is more in keeping, but hey ho, you do you.

If you are seriously suggesting an airport would ever be staffed solely by females, including all the armed police, then you've lost the plot completely. Just admit it, you made up a silly plot line to excuse yourself from your reluctance to back a female's right not to have to pat down a male, even if that male identified as female. A feminist who won't defend females...hmm

Nothing much changed then?

trisher

It's funny Rosie51 because it's just another example of how unaccepting and discriminatory some people are and how they pretend to be feminist whilst simultaneously denigrating and dismissing females and their requests.

But trisher, your words are almost a perfect description of you, except that I had to add feminist. You twist comments to make them say what you want and deviate from whatever the title is.

So wanting an all female shift at an airport isn't a possibility and isn't feminist- who knew?
I was asked a silly question Rosie51 I responded with all the possibilities. Apparently the only feminist response is to say you support the officer and not to look at any of the possible scenarios. Isn't that a bit like thinking women shouldn't think about things or consider anything carefully? Once it was considered that thinking damaged women's reproductive capacities, apparently now it harms their feminism. I reject that completely. If the unexamined life isn't worth living then unexamined feminism is not worth having.

Did you know that today is Detransition Awareness Day, where those who know their lives have been ruined because they were not stopped from transitioning? Read some of their heartbreaking stories in ‘I am an Observer’.

I read some figures around detransitioning from Buck Angel the other day. It really worried me, they were talking about thousands.

So wanting an all female shift at an airport isn't a possibility and isn't feminist- who knew? Now you're just compounding your silliness. You portrayed your plot line as if it was a real possibility today, right now. And no I don't think an all female workforce at an airport is a good idea, because that would be balanced by an all male workforce on a different shift, or hadn't your brain considered that? I think having both sexes working together is best. That way passengers of either sex (whether carrying bombs or weapons or not ??) can be assured of being searched by the appropriate sex officer.

I was asked a silly question Rosie51 I responded with all the possibilities No you weren't and no you didn't. Galaxy's question was most reasonable.

"Mollygo* Yes I was aware it's Detransition Awareness Day. Such heartbreak and tragedy for so many, but the TRAs call them derogatory names and would rather their voices weren't heard. My great fear is how big the numbers will go in the future, given the massively increased numbers of female to male transitions, nearly all of whom have a double mastectomy. There are a lot of culpable people who will be backpeddling like crazy, and deleting tweets and blogs.