Vagina Museum

VioletSky, as Callistemon said, other posters Who disagree manage to battle on ….without accusing others of personal attacks. I find some of your posts where you claim to be the victim, passive aggressive. I do realise you won’t agree with me -

I know people think they have a "majority view" on these threads but actually what they have is "majority comments".

If you look at threads where people have asked for support with a trans relative for an example, you will see an outpouring of acceptance and kindness.

Those voices just aren't on these threads because these threads are not welcoming to other views and generally become very uncomfortable reading.

I have asked people to take responsibility for that because, echo chambers aren't healthy and can not only make views more entrenched but make them enhanced past what is healthy to the well being for those having them. As well as crossing lines when it comes to attacking other people who are entitled to express their thoughts too. This ultimately damages those doing rather than receiving more in my opinion.

Yet here we are again

VS, that’s the best thing you can do. Don’t read, don’t answer, don’t suffer the way you see yourself suffering.
I, along with most posters am Understanding of womens fears. I am understanding that many TW do not involve themselves in the less salubrious activities of some TW.
However I am also understanding of the fact that TW trying to thrust themselves into and override womens rights is wrong and that saying men are women is a biological untruth. Trying to claim womens rights for men is what causes the angst.
Have an international TW day. Have a celebrate my manufactured vagina for TW day, but not on International Womens’ Day - they aren’t and never will be female.

Please could you clarify what the difference is between majority views and majority comments and what is it about that difference that gives you the right to diminish the two?

Agree entirely with your post @ 15.51 Iam64

Mollygo I'm not suffering at all, I think you are making that mistake because I'm only speaking for myself about what I observe

One thing that we all seem to agree on is that these conversations matter

It's just my opinion that under these conditions, which I have tried to explain, these conversations aren't actually helping or changing anything and people aren't actually listening to each other.

When opposing views get tired of that and leave the thread, the thread dies very quickly

So is this a discussion or a rallying call?

If it's a discussion, do so fairly, look for common ground, find compromise we can agree on and then we can all find a way to put that to those who can change things.

If it's a rallying call, where are you going with it? What do you hope to actually achieve in the real world? Where is your front line? What is your plan to affect real change, do you have the weight of all women behind you?

Because I'm afraid the other side is making progress fighting for their rights

Well said Mollygo

VS I have asked people to take responsibility for that because, echo chambers aren't healthy and can not only make views more entrenched but make them enhanced past what is healthy to the well being for those having them
oh how I agree, especially those that subscribe to the echo chamber transwomen are women and believe there is no difference between men who want to be women and women who were born that way, and their wishes should always come first. If transwomen (males) made no attempt to breach those areas that should be single sex then there'd hardly be a whisper about them. Thankfully sports cheats like Lia Thomas are waking up more and more people to this total disregard for females. Would you approve of one day that was dedicated to celebrating only the female sex? Just the one day, not a lot to ask surely?

Because I'm afraid the other side is making progress fighting for their rights VS can you itemise the rights transpeople don't have that everyone else does?

Rosie51

Please tell me, how my repeatedly asking for respectful discussion with those of opposing views to mine is "subscribing to an echo chamber"?

I'm at a loss as to why you're trying to police and shut down this discussion violetsky or why you're highlighting that posts are "majority comments" rather than "majority views", hinting that one is of less value than the other. What do you mean by this? There has been, as always, some erudite and well articulated posts on here, whether you consider them to be "comments" or "views" and most of them are saying the same thing: If trans women want a day to show off their spanking new vaginas, or any other bits of genitalia that they acquire, it would be greatly appreciated if they could do it on their own time and not hijack National Women's Day. There's no need to try to shut down our voices on here; men are already doing that for you.

If asking for respectful discussion is policing then I'm policing

The vagina museum is run by women who accept trans women as women and this year they have chosen to celebrate trans women on woman's day.

Possibly this choice has been made because there is a lot of commentary at the moment that will have a negative impact on trans women and this is a way to show them some love and support.

Next year it may be women who have been queen or women who gave been to space or women who gave birth to babies over 10 pounds vaginally... Who knows

But I doubt anyone would mind any of those or feel angry and pushed aside by that

VioletSky

Rosie51

Please tell me, how my repeatedly asking for respectful discussion with those of opposing views to mine is "subscribing to an echo chamber"?

VS
Why are you calling posters who disagree with you an echo chamber? Why do you constantly dismiss posters' concerns as 'nothing to worry about', advise them to take a deep breath (how patronising!) If posters disagree with and question your posts you immediately portray yourself as a victim. You asking for respectful discussion isn't subscribing to an echo chamber.
Only you know for sure whether or not you're part of the echo chamber that chants for transwomen over natal women (it's never for transmen, still wondering why).

How's that list of the rights transpeople don't have that everyone else does coming along?

I haven't called people who disagree e an echo chamber, I have said that is what it would be if other thoughts and opinions aren't welcome.

I'm not a victim, just pointing out issues with these discussions

Do you think it is ok to call me stupid?

If I called you stupid would you say nothing?

I'm actually sort of middle ground here really because I do understand a lot of people's issues. I do think some issues aren't working and need a new approach. I think this is why I'm picking up on things so much instead of just settling in and having an argument

Oh and Trans women are not over women for me so that's also untrue. Is it OK to point that out?

Questions won't or can't, be answered Rosie51 I'm still waiting for clarification as to the difference between majority comments and majority views and why one is deemed to be less worthy of consideration. I suspect that their can be no answer but the thread has been derailed enough by a personal introspection.

List of rights trans people don't have?

Mmy point is they have fought and won

We have discussed so many policies that have been updated previously? What about the equality act? What about all the ways it is now unlawful to discriminate against trans people?

What about those who have now been able to legally change gender? They didn't fight for that?

Comments do not appear in real time for me and I do not sit on gransnet.

It takes me a long time to write a comment when I want to ensure I'm engaging politely

I answer one thing, more questions come, some get lost or forgotten or simply not seen trying to keep up.

Sometimes 11 quotes and 1 comment saying I'm not a feminist and 1 calling me stupid

I am grateful to know that my thoughts are wanted at least

I really have to go and finish many things I've started right now

VioletSky

List of rights trans people don't have?

Mmy point is they have fought and won

We have discussed so many policies that have been updated previously? What about the equality act? What about all the ways it is now unlawful to discriminate against trans people?

What about those who have now been able to legally change gender? They didn't fight for that?

Because I'm afraid the other side is making progress fighting for their rights this is what you said is making therefore not in the past, but still a present fight, so I ask again, what rights do they still not have that others do? Or are you going with your later statement Mmy point is they have fought and won in which case the fight is over.

Well as we have won nearly every legal challenge so far I think we are doing ok. And guess where those legal challenges on the whole came from. Women talking on MN. So honestly you dont need to worry too much about how it's going. Strangely enough lots of women and gender critical transpeople arent just talking on the internet.

Oh and Trans women are not over women for me so that's also untrue. Is it OK to point that out.
Of course you can point out that transwomen are not over women for you.
I can point out that trans women should not be over any women in any circumstances unfortunately some trans women don’t agree with that.
You can actually say almost anything on here same as I can (with perfect truth) say they are not women, because despite all the attempts to twist around the vocabulary, woman is still an adult human female. So TW are not women.
Here’s a thought. If TW want to be called TW what’s the problem? They can run in TW races, apply for jobs that include TW in the list of people who can apply, they can go into facilities like changing rooms or refuges that have been allocated for TW.
My experience of TW, which is possibly more limited than yours, but no less valuable, is that neither those TW who wish to keep their transition private nor those who are TW because it entitles them to things specifically for women would be happy with that.

I can’t help but think that The Vagina Museum has done this for publicity alone

And I’m going to add this:
You cannot be born in the wrong body

grannydarkhair

Why is talking about basic human biology mean?

??????????

FannyCornforth

And I’m going to add this:
You cannot be born in the wrong body

?????????

FannyCornforth

I can’t help but think that The Vagina Museum has done this for publicity alone

Well good for them. Publicising women's issues is surely a positive thing. Or are they supposed just to keep quiet?
Milck at the 2018 Women's March on Washington in pink pussy hats! www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLvIw8J8sWE

I agree trisher that publicising women's issues is a positive thing. Publicising trans women's issues is also a good thing but should not be done under the umbrella of women's issues because they are not women.

Or are they supposed just to keep quiet?

No trisher, you're muddling up the "keep quiet" narrative with what natal women are being told when they raise any concerns about people with penis's being in their safe spaces, prisons, rape crisis centres, Girl Guides, Brownies, changing rooms, toilets, domestic violence safe houses and lesbian groups. And if they dare to raise their concerns about this they're shouted down for being "transphobic," transactivists, terfs and "true feminist deniers". So if trans women are experiencing being told to KEEP quiet, well then they'd better get used to it. We've lived like this for millennia and we're still being told to KEEP QUIET, MOVE OVER, SHUT UP AND BE KIND.